Have you ever asked yourself, ‘why am I eating this now?’
I’ve talked about this in many of my past episodes, but today I’m excited to have two clients joining me to share their powerful stories of going from “failing” at every program they tried to addressing the root issues of their falling off track with food.
Tune in to hear Ginny and Isis talk about the diets they’ve been on, the health concerns they’re navigating, and how our work together transformed their eating habits, including food no longer being their go-to.
In this episode, we will discuss:
- Our unique health priorities & how they relate to what we eat
- The many ways popular diets shame & isolate us
- Why Ginny & Isis decided to join Why Am I Eating This Now?
- How to know you’re ready to invest in yourself
- Support for pulling yourself out of feeling powerless
- The importance of having a flexible path (not a rigid rulebook)
Mentioned in this episode:
Connect with Ali & Insatiable:
My Conversation with Ginny and Isis (Transcript)
Ali Shapiro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Insatiable, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of food, psychology, and culture.
Isis [00:00:08]:
The problem that most of us see is what we’re sold in society and what they wanna make money off of. And I don’t mean this in, like, a malicious intent, but it doesn’t think about me as a person. It thinks of me as a consumer. So I’ll buy Jenny Craig. I’ll buy Weight Watchers because I see these results, but what they’re not selling is what does that person look like now? What’s their cholesterol? Do they walk their dogs 3 times a day? Do they even have the energy with the dietary restrictions we’re putting them on? No. They don’t talk about that. We just see pants size, And we’re sold this song of, like, that’s all that matters.
Ali Shapiro [00:00:48]:
I’m your host, Ali Shapiro, an integrated health coach, 32 year and counting cancer survivor, and have radically healed my relationship with food and my body. And for the past 17 years, I’ve been working with clients individually, in group programs, and in company settings to do the same. Welcome. The information in this podcast should not be considered personal, individual, or medical advice. Oh, insuja listeners, you are in for a treat today. Often we feel powerless or out of control around food because we don’t know why we can’t stay on track with our eating. Right? It’s the mystery itself that can be so frustrating. So to feel back in control with food, you don’t need a perfect diet plan.
Ali Shapiro [00:01:40]:
You actually first need to know what’s happening when you fall off track, and it’s not lack of willpower. And that’s what my, why am I eating this now live program is all about. It’s open for registration now and it only runs once a year in September. This program puts you back in control of food because you finally see the roots of why you’re falling off track. And once you discover these root emotional eating triggers, I give you a flexible plan to resolve those triggers. So whether you’re menopausal and haven’t slept, so are craving sugar for energy to power through, Or you’d love to treat yourself to yoga, but who knows how long it will take the kids to get to bed, let alone if they’ll stay asleep. And let’s be real, who wants to do yoga that late at night? I can barely keep my eyes open even while I’m putting us into bed. So unwinding with cookies instead is so much more accessible.
Ali Shapiro [00:02:43]:
So I asked Ginny and Isis on because they are past why am I eating this now participants who had tried it all, but they joined Why Am I Doing This Now because they hadn’t ever looked inward in the way we do in the program. We laughed on the episode about how much therapy we’ve all been in. But why am I doing this now is about cultivating the courage for consistency. And I mean the courage to look inward, to explore how your battle with food is actually an inner battle of getting your needs met. So what are the benefits of doing this inner work and why am I doing this now? Because as Jenny and Isis share, it’s challenging to do this inner work. But when you do that, you’ll quiet your food noise, you build lasting habits, and you can end emotional eating. No white knuckling required. And that’s what we do over the 12 weeks of this live program that, did I mention, only runs once a year.
Ali Shapiro [00:03:44]:
This program teaches you moderation, how to stop falling off track, and experience food freedom. So there’s no more rules. There’s no more being told what to do. And you’ll learn about why that’s so magical, not scary in today’s episode. Why am I eating this now has been tailor made for all the healthy skeptics out here who send something is missing from resolving their food struggles, but can’t put their finger on it. And you want an efficient path to figure this out because you suspect that you already know enough about nutrition or meal planning. And as much as you like to do your research, you’re beginning to suspect that the answers you seek are not going to be found Googling. Unless, of course, like Ginny and Isis shared, they found me through a Google rabbit hole.
Ali Shapiro [00:04:34]:
So we’re here for the nuance. But if you’re ready to figure out why your struggles with food actually makes sense so that you can move on with your life, feel amazing and free, then why am I needing this now will work wonders for you. You can learn more about this program by clicking in the show notes or by coming to my free upcoming masterclass, Untangle Your Food Triggers, Catch Yourself Before You Fall Off Track on Tuesday, September 10th at 12 pm Eastern Standard Time. And if you’ve ever been to any of my free master classes, you know, they’re 90% content and there’s just a little bit of sales at the end. So be prepared to have a radical mindset shift in this class. In this masterclass, I’ll guide you through a coaching exercise that will enable you to uncover what’s really going on underneath your struggles with emotional eating. And you walk away with a tangible tool you can apply next time you find yourself wondering, why am I eating this now? You’ll also learn what triggers you to fight food and hint. It’s not about food.
Ali Shapiro [00:05:41]:
Like I said, we’re going to talk about the inner battle. The 4 emotional triggers that bring on food self sabotage, even if you’re feeling great. And if you’re familiar with the often repeated HALT acronym, am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired? You’ll learn what’s missing in that framework. And you’ll learn how to interrupt the self sabotage cycle, whether you’re at home or traveling or at parties or restaurants or other such social situations. Because the good news about inner work is that it’s about you. So wherever you go, there you are. You don’t meet a 1000000 different plans based on where you’re going. It’s you know how to respond to your eating triggers without food.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:21]:
There is a link in the show notes to that free masterclass. And yes, it will be recorded if you can’t make it live or you’re listening to this after the masterclass has happened live. It’ll also be on the the sales page for Why Am I Eating This Now after it’s run. Okay. Onto the show. But before we do that, I want to give you a quick bio on Ginny and Isis. Ginny is a nature lover, a wife, a sister, and a stepmom. She loves using both halves of her brain in her work life.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:54]:
She’s an engineering technical writer and her play life, which she’s an interior designer. When not worshiping at the feet of her 3 cats, she can be found singing, reading, sitting on a beach, putting in a weight workout, or enjoying a session of hot yoga. Isis is a director of financial program and project management for a global retail software company out of San Francisco. She lives in Boulder with her 2 awesome teenagers, 2 gigantic dogs, and 50 some odd plants. In her spare time, she hikes the rockies, tries fine wines and cooks unique recipes with her oldest who wants to become a professional chef. She’s a cinephile and is most recently obsessed with defining all the subcategories inside the horror genre. Enjoy their stories and how funny they are along with an insightful show. So Ginny and Isis, thank you so much for joining me.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:52]:
I really appreciate you taking the time.
Ginny [00:07:55]:
Thank you.
Isis [00:07:56]:
Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:58]:
So let’s set the stage for listeners because I know each of your back stories, not all of them, obviously, the whole thing, but listeners don’t. And just for context, Isis, you shook YAMITING this now was it 3 years ago?
Isis [00:08:11]:
Yeah. 2021. And
Ali Shapiro [00:08:13]:
Jenny just took it in 2023. So it’ll be great because the more time you have out, the the different insights and and progress. So, Jenny, where were you before you signed up for Y Am I Doing This Now last year at this time in terms of your food struggles?
Ginny [00:08:29]:
I was in the why don’t I have any willpower loop and everybody else can do this. Why can’t I do this? And look how effective it is for so and so, and and this person, you know, did Weight Watchers and looks great. What is my problem? Why can’t I stick with this? And I specifically came across your podcast because I Googled sugar addiction or something to that effect and listened to your an episode on that, and it was so revelatory. And I’m like, wait a minute. So you’re saying that willpower maybe isn’t a thing? It’s not like the end all be all. I’m not broken. Wait. Wait.
Ginny [00:09:08]:
What are you talking about here? So I did a little research on my own and just kinda looked into you. And everything that you said and and presented on on your website, etcetera, just made so much sense. So I was in this I was definitely caught in a really beating myself up, really frustrated with nothing is working and why can’t I stick with this?
Ali Shapiro [00:09:31]:
Oh, my god. You know, I’ve been there for 18 years. It was like, it’s me. I’m the problem. I love that. I’m always like for marketing purposes, I’m always asking people, like, how did you find me? And they’re like, I was down some rabbit hole. And I was like, that’s my marketing plan. Be down rabbit
Ginny [00:09:49]:
hole. Working.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:50]:
Yeah. I think Isis, what about you? Where were you in terms of your food journey and struggles when you came to Y Am I Doing This Now?
Isis [00:10:00]:
Well, it was after the pandemic, right? So it was a really interesting time. Brief history. I was diagnosed with, like, 3 different eating disorders when I was 25. So I’d been in recovery, but it had become an issue with, like, managing all of my numbers, so cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides. I’m prediabetic, so I was really worried about a one c levels and cholesterol. So I think I’ve said that twice. But so I was struggling with food insecurity. I lost my job in 2020.
Isis [00:10:36]:
I have 2 kids and a single mom. And so I was starving myself for several months until I got employment, and I was just making sure my kids were covered with very healthy, nutritious meals. I was maybe eating once a day. So when but I was also working out. So there was this level of depletion that I wasn’t monitoring in myself. And then when 20 the end of 2020 came along and I was employed, I was overeating. I had that the starvation response of, like, okay, now I can eat all of that. And then I couldn’t stop.
Isis [00:11:13]:
Like, it was that feeling of like, okay. I have diagnosed binge eating disorder, so here it comes. And it was that sense of having been through several years, decades now of different forms of therapy, I knew that I wasn’t interested in the diet culture, but I knew there was I needed help, and I have a difficult time asking for help. And I work a 100% remote, so I’m all about, like, I’m good in my bubble, but I’m not. So it was a it was a Google search of the word insatiable because that’s genuinely how I felt. I felt insatiable. I felt like I couldn’t satisfy, whether it was salt, whether it was sweet, whether it was protein, whether it was carbs. I just would just, like, eat.
Isis [00:11:57]:
And the thing is, like, I didn’t necessarily because I love exercise I live in Colorado, if everybody knows. We are I hike every weekend in the Rocky Mountains, so health is a huge it really important to me. So when I’m not eating healthy, my autoimmune disease goes bananas, and I can’t work out. And then it becomes that downward spiral of depression. So finding insatiable, listening to your podcast and these were your early podcasts. Right? Lots of giggling, lots of I love that for you, you know? But I really it resonated with me because I was like, this is my person. So I started listening to you and then I because of your talking about your why am I eating this now is coming up, I was like I just reached out and said, I think I wanna do this. Having again been through therapy, I knew it was different for me in that I wanted to learn what’s going on up here.
Isis [00:12:58]:
I wanted to stop the blame game, and I I felt like this was a a chance to be curious and mindful and unintentional. And and I I, yeah. That’s why. That’s where I was.
Ali Shapiro [00:13:12]:
I had no idea, like, the full extent, Isis. Like, I think that’s something that doesn’t get talked about enough. Right? Like to Jenny’s point, this isn’t about willpower. This is about something so much more complex. And you had a past, right, of like, oh, here it comes. And and here’s what I’m bracing for. And I love what I think both of you are saying is, like, I know the existing solutions, like, aren’t enough, but I don’t know what else is in a way. Right?
Isis [00:13:40]:
Right. It’s that helplessness of, like, I’ve tried everything. And I think the problem and and this is a bigger issue, but the problem that most of us see is what we’re sold in society and and and what they wanna make money off of. And I don’t mean this in, like, a malicious intent, but it doesn’t think about me as a as a person. It thinks of me as a consumer. So I’ll buy Jenny Craig. I’ll buy Weight Watchers. I’ll buy because I see these results.
Isis [00:14:09]:
But what they’re not selling is what does that person look like now? What’s their cholesterol? How are they hiking every weekend? Do they walk their dogs 3 times a day? Are they able to do they even have the energy with the dietary restrictions we’re putting them on? No. They don’t talk about that. We just see pants size. We’re and we’re sold this this song of, like, that’s all that matters. And so it’s hard, especially, I think, those of us who are a few decades on this planet, to hear the other story, which is, no, it’s really important that I feel good and I can hike and I can walk with my kids. And that’s actually more beautiful than fitting into a size that I have an arbitrary number that tells me I look good.
Ginny [00:14:55]:
It’s more than just knowing that there are alternatives out there. It’s, like, almost like a totally different language. Like, diet culture wasn’t something that I was familiar with before I I joined this group. Having an option c, black and white thinking, none of this gets told to you when you’re looking at Weight Watchers, and it’s, oh, it’s so easy. Just count your points, and you’re gonna lose weight. It’s it’s not. That’s not what it’s about. That’s if if that if it was that easy, then everybody would be walking around as a size 4.
Ginny [00:15:25]:
And, you know, we’re not.
Ali Shapiro [00:15:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. And Weight Watchers would be out of business.
Ginny [00:15:31]:
So Except for their so delicious and nutritious snacks.
Ali Shapiro [00:15:36]:
Oh, I can still I it’s funny. Carlos is often asking if my sister and I had the same childhood because she’s an attorney. She remembers every detail. And I’m like, I just remember the general sense of things, but I remember going to Weight Watchers and thinking those, like, bars they had that were, like, 2 points. I mean, they tasted like chemicals, but I was like, but they have chocolate. But they have chocolate.
Isis [00:16:01]:
This is how this I deserve this. Right? This is the best I can do because I can’t handle anything else. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:16:11]:
Yeah. And I you know, Ginny, I I love that you talk about, like, having the language for diet culture. And then, Isis, you talking about, well, if you’re aware of diet culture, now the other end is like, well, there’s health at every size. And I and I to be truthful, I haven’t read that book. I don’t know a lot about it. And I also know that especially as I’ve aged and just came off of, you know, gaining £30 through menopause and post partum and then losing it and being like from my own personal story being like, what really is healthy? Because again, my cholesterol went up. My a one c has creeped up by 4 points every year since I’ve been in menopause. When I started really looking at it, I’m like, it’s so important to get out of this narrative that weight is about willpower because then it becomes about shame and blame instead of where is the line of health? And it’s going to be different for each person.
Ali Shapiro [00:16:59]:
But there is an even the middle way is like, where can we actually like wrestle with food does contribute to your health, right? Like it does. And to say then, like, we shouldn’t pay attention to this. It’s just going to the other extreme. And that’s not helpful either because then you don’t feel to your point, Isis, like you can get up and hike. Or Jenny, I know we’ve talked about sleep. Like it’s, you know, sleep. So I think and we’re in a culture that is so extreme that it’s hard to have these conversations. So I appreciate you both sharing that.
Ali Shapiro [00:17:33]:
So we we kind of touched upon it, but Isis, we’ll start with you this time. What have you what have you tried in the past and had you taken any other courses?
Isis [00:17:43]:
Great question. I have tried, oh my gosh, keto, Atkins, Weight Watchers, if I can. When I was 12, my mother entered me into the Weight Watchers. I was 5 foot 3, a £100. So I was definitely in a in a household of of very disordered eating. And it was just my mother and I, so my brothers were able to be 6 foot tall, 200 plus pounds. And but fortunately, it didn’t work and did cause me to have decades of of disordered eating, but I never went back to Weight Watchers. But I I’ve tried almost every single delivery meal program too, even like the ones that are just to make life easy because then my brain is tricked into think, oh, it’s portion control.
Isis [00:18:33]:
So before I joined with with you, I I definitely tried just about everything. And and I came out at 2 from portion control and making sure I get my, like, they call them macros, right, getting all of my protein and because of my health issues, and then making sure I’m full because that satiety that we need to focus on is so important for those of us who love to binge, and then we eat things that are so binge worthy like a bag of Frito Lay’s potato chips. What other courses did I try? To be honest, I don’t I hadn’t tried other courses. I was in, like, intense eating disorder therapy. So that was like that actually was a great and I was in, like, Overeaters Anonymous group, therapy for a few years in my twenties. Those were great opportunities for me to learn, like, how to talk and how to share such trauma and stuff like that around life and why it created these issues for me. But, no, I think because of diet culture, because of society, because of self blame, shame, and guilt, I never saw this bridge that you provided until I saw the bridge that you provided. So it was like the the the trail cleared open, and I saw the bridge into this whole other language that I could use and and would help me heal.
Ali Shapiro [00:20:05]:
And don’t like, when you were saying about keto, because I know a lot of people, especially when they get into menopause, they keto is, like, sold as, like, Spanish, the menopod.
Isis [00:20:14]:
Oh, and I’m perimenopausal. So
Ali Shapiro [00:20:17]:
so you’ll you’ll get okay. Wait till your feed. Wait till you start clicking on one protein post. Next thing you know, it’s like, you’ll see. But I think, like, what’s so seductive about those is didn’t you get probably results at first?
Isis [00:20:31]:
Oh, yeah. Right away. Well and and it also sings that song of you’re gonna get this detoxification headache at first and blah blah blah blah blah. Just get past it because that’s the fog and the sugar. And it’s like my brain requires glucose to function rationally, so that’s what’s happening. Because I’m starving my brain of its main fuel, and you’re selling me this idea that fat or protein will become what I need it to become, but I’m not getting this from my, you know, degreed nutritionist who’s like, that’s bullshit. Stop doing that. Do this in moderation, and I’ll work with you.
Isis [00:21:10]:
But, yeah, I did. And that that was the thing too. The Atkins, I lost. I lost £30 in 3 months. I’m not exaggerating. Did it all come back plus more in 6 months later? Yeah. Yeah. And then my cholesterol was 205.
Isis [00:21:26]:
Right? So and then I I wasn’t walking. I felt like shit. I wasn’t sleeping right. And I think I was still 30 something when I did that. And I was I didn’t have kids yet. I didn’t have daughters. I I wasn’t a role model for anybody but myself. And so I was still in that mindset of, like, gotta be a size blah blah blah in order to be blah blah blah for all of these imaginary people in my head.
Ali Shapiro [00:21:50]:
You make me think too about the cost of these like, not just the financial cost and the shame and blame, but to your point, the quality of life that then when you don’t look holistically at you know, you keep using the example of hiking. Right? Or I think about, like, when I my going through menopause and my food needs changed and I didn’t know that yet, but just the insomnia of, you know, and the exhaustion and how that, like, totally made me depressed and, like, felt like ruined my life. So I think that’s really important for listeners because sometimes it’s just like eye on the prize, eye on the prize And yet, is this actually creating worse habits that are then going to backfire in 2 to 3 months, especially once such a decrease of nutrition and calories, which these those aren’t always the same, come to the what is it? The roost comes home to
Isis [00:22:39]:
The chickens come home in a roost? Yes. Yes. I don’t even know what that means, but
Ali Shapiro [00:22:43]:
I get the sentiment.
Isis [00:22:45]:
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest hurdle for those of us to get over is recognizing there isn’t just one number, the scale. There really isn’t because I’m I’m at a weight now where, my BMI is, like, almost 30, but I lift. I’m a power lifter. Right? Like, I’m at the gym 4 to 5 days a week, and I I do elevation gains of a 1000 feet when I hike the rockies. Like, I am and I’m gonna be 50. And it’s like I am determined to not give a shit about the scale and to really focus with my PCP on cholesterol, a one c, blood pressure, triglycerides, and all of those other numbers that, like, if they start creeping up, she can she can talk to me.
Isis [00:23:41]:
I am on medication to, you know, make sure that specifically for my autoimmune disease. But it’s like, if I eat the wrong thing now at my age 2, I have to call my best friend and say I can’t go for a hike with you because I’m gonna be sick for 2 days. You know, I screwed up just because of one stupid ass thing. So I have to be a little more vigil. And and as a result, I’m like, it’s it’s not worth it. It’s just not worth it for me. I the vistas and and the ability to see what I see and just to have cake one night and and then I know it’s gonna screw up my gut for 20 4 to 36 hours. It’s like, I weigh those odds now so much more than when I was younger, and I was just, like, so much more impulsive.
Isis [00:24:29]:
You know? That’s the biggest difference is there’s there’s more impulse and intention behind my actions and my food.
Ali Shapiro [00:24:38]:
Yeah. Well and I think what you’re also describing is you’re thinking of how will this better care for me rather than is this about weight loss and shame and blame.
Isis [00:24:49]:
Yeah. That that’s really where I started. That point was my whole point to get to was it’s not about the weight. It’s about, like, can I bench press, you know, £200 tomorrow? Or am I gonna screw that up? Am I still gonna be able to squat 350? By the way, I can squat 350. That’s amazing. I know. I have to eat the right amount of protein to do that. If I don’t, I’m weak.
Isis [00:25:13]:
I I could screw up my bones. I could injure my back. So it’s so much more different, my relationship with my body, now than 5 years ago.
Ali Shapiro [00:25:23]:
Love that. Jenny, what about you? Like, what had you tried in the past?
Ginny [00:25:28]:
So I was a really skinny kid. I was skinny kid. I was skinny through high school. I was getting through college. So anything I wanted to, I I just didn’t put on weight. I was I was lucky. You know? I I had those genes. And then I hit about 30, and and the the brakes started pumping, and the weight started coming on, and then coming on, and then it wasn’t coming off, and I I was in all I knew was, oh, we’re gonna have pizza tonight.
Ginny [00:25:55]:
Okay. Great. Get me get me one so I can have, you know, 4 or 5 pieces. So when the weight started creeping on and it wasn’t magically sliding off, I started with Body For Life. I believe a group of us did Body For Life at at work, which is a healthier program than than most, and I felt good doing it. But, you know, it’s a it’s a very strict eat this, don’t eat that, work out this way, don’t work out that way, and, you know, it it fell apart. Weight Watchers. What’s the what’s this? Noom? Noom? Zoom? Noom.
Ginny [00:26:31]:
Oh, Noom.
Isis [00:26:32]:
Oh, shoot. I forgot. I tried Noom. Yeah, I did try Noom. Totally triggered my eating disorder.
Ginny [00:26:38]:
I could see why. And again, it just makes you feel so, so inadequate. So I ran the gamut, and nothing stuck. Nothing worked. I felt I was broke like, I was broken. You know? It I was doing it wrong. Weight Watchers at first was awesome. I I dropped couple pant sizes, felt terrific, and now it’s, like, 16 pant sizes bigger.
Ginny [00:27:03]:
So, yeah, I if if it was out there, I tried that. I did I did draw the line. I haven’t done I haven’t done any intermittent fasting. That’s not one that I ever did. And I haven’t done any mail order food things, but as you know, Allie, I’m the world’s weirdest eater, so I I wouldn’t it it would be wasted money, so I didn’t try that. But pretty much everything else.
Ali Shapiro [00:27:26]:
I’m curious because I know Noom is, like, from a professional standpoint, it’s cognitive behavioral therapy, which I think, again, isn’t really addressing the root issue. But what did you find difficult about Noomgenie of, like, why it made you feel inadequate?
Ginny [00:27:41]:
The structure is you you get, like, a lesson per per day or every other day, and you sort of apply that to your eating habits or your well, no. It’s all it’s exclusive eating habits. It doesn’t address anything beyond it doesn’t address sleep or or well-being or anything. And it’s the concepts the concepts aren’t difficult, but if you don’t completely follow what they’re trying to feed you, it’s very frustrating. So their big thing is, would you rather have a handful of grapes or, 3 potato chips? I can’t remember the exact amount. It comes right down to it comes down to that. The at the end of the day, it’s this has this many calories. This has this many calories, so you choose which you’d rather eat.
Ginny [00:28:31]:
And, well, I’m like, well, I’d rather eat the potato chips. So yet again, another thing where it’s like, well, crap. I’ve just eaten a whole bag of potato chips. I didn’t mean to do that, but they said I could eat some. So it was very much the program is very much, here’s what we’re telling you to do, and this is how you will succeed. And if you don’t do it the way we’re telling you, you’re doing it wrong. And that’s kind of been the bottom line with everything. And in my case, I took it to heart.
Ginny [00:28:56]:
I’m like, well, yeah. Obviously, I am wrong. And it’s frustrating, and it’s debilitatingly depressing, and they don’t understand the the whole person, and they don’t want to. I mean, you know, it’s how do you make money if you’re investing that much time and energy in a single in a single person? Oh, Ally, how new you? Because you you seem to manage to do it. Terrific.
Ali Shapiro [00:29:19]:
Well, you’re making me think about how so many of us in in Ginny, you didn’t even have trouble with it growing up. I’m not not to diminish it by any means, but like this was to you in your thirties when I’m thinking about Isis and I at Weight Watchers at 11 and 12. And how every time you try something, like the shame is just waiting to be like, yeah, you’re wrong. You know? And it’s like
Ginny [00:29:40]:
They did that they did a
Isis [00:29:41]:
marker color system. Remember? It’s like green and red. And there was like the scale between green and red. And if you ate a red food, you had the, like this is back when I did it. It was years ago. So they may have updated it, but the red foods were like calorie dense foods. So they didn’t wanna say nothing’s bad. They kept saying we’re not emphasizing bad or good.
Isis [00:30:05]:
Food is food. And it’s like, okay. I hear that logic. You’re saying new popular anti diet culture language, but you’re making me grade my food like a preschooler and I’m losing the battle. I’ve hit my calorie count by 10 AM. You know? Right?
Ali Shapiro [00:30:29]:
And you’re bringing all that old baggage again. It’s it’s unconscious, but it’s like, I’m wrong again. I’m wrong again. Ugh. And I I’m thinking about Isis how you say, like, I don’t like to ask for help. And that’s that’s something that the last 3 years, like reclaiming that dependent part of me that that needs other people. And thinking about how when you have so much shame, you just isolate further, and then you come up with all the reasons not to get help or be in a group or talk about this stuff. And then it just continues, and then you’re there, you know, trying Noom and or the next thing.
Ali Shapiro [00:31:05]:
And it’s like, what’s the current buzzwords? And then let’s try to put what, like, lipstick on a pig is like the I’m coming up with all these old school sayings.
Ginny [00:31:15]:
I mean, you don’t wanna share with your friends. Oh, yeah. Well, weight walkers didn’t work, so I’m trying new. Well, new didn’t work, so I’m gonna because that you know, because so so you do isolate yourself because you’re like, well, I failed at all these other things. I don’t want them to see me fail at this thing too. So you don’t share with anybody. So you’re in this little bubble by yourself. And in my case, the little rev the little hamster in my brain is you’re wrong.
Ginny [00:31:37]:
You’re wrong. You’re failing. You’re not doing this. You’re not and I don’t have anywhere you know, there’s no one I can share this with. It was it’s awful.
Ali Shapiro [00:31:43]:
It is. It really is. Well and so I like that you both talked about, like, the language once you took why am I eating this now and and all the stuff. So did you have any hesitations about signing up? Because this could be categorized as another thing. Even though I say it’s not about the food, we’re getting to the root. I think that language is being used more and more now. It wasn’t when I what first started out. But was there hesitation? Because this is such a different concept that food is about safety and belonging.
Ali Shapiro [00:32:14]:
Did you have any doubts before signing up? And we’ll we’ll start with you, Jenny.
Ginny [00:32:18]:
I did not at all. Everything that you said made sense and was very intellectually challenging. It’s like, wait, what? So I can explore this in this context? I can learn about myself? I don’t have to be, you know, weight isn’t the only measure of how healthy I am? Wow. Interesting. So I I had no hesitations in in large measure because I think I was so starved for for a program that was that was more than just do it my way or the highway. And and what you offered was a very symbiotic, you know, meet me halfway. Here’s here’s what I wanna teach you. Here’s how you can learn.
Ginny [00:33:07]:
And it’s not just it’s not just, here’s what I know. There’s research that backs this up. There’s logic that backs this up. There’s there’s a whole history. There’s education and all of that. It just it made so much sense and continues to make sense. And, I mean, I I can say without any question, I think it’s possibly one of the most powerful things, and, you know, don’t tell my husband, who, of course, will never listen to this episode, you know, marrying him was the greatest thing I ever did, but your program
Ali Shapiro [00:33:39]:
I didn’t know where this was going.
Ginny [00:33:41]:
That’s what don’t tell my husband, but no. I feel comfortable with you guys already. No. But your your program has given me a strength and, really, a conduit to myself that is incredibly nourishing and and enlightening. And every day, it’s something new. I I tell you, I was thinking earlier, it’s it’s like I’ve got the Gini manual, and sometimes, like, oh, cool. Yeah. I get it.
Ginny [00:34:09]:
Okay. Step 4, step 5. Sure. And sometimes, it’s those weirdos who put together the IKEA, you know, instructions. Like, what is this? I don’t have that part. What are you talking about? But it’s wonderful that the why am I eating this now kinda gave me the introduction kinda to myself.
Ali Shapiro [00:34:25]:
I love that you say that because that’s kinda the big reveal is that this isn’t a battle with food. It’s a battle yourself and your need. Isis, what about you? Did you have any hesitations? Especially, I mean, you know, I didn’t, like, know that you were, like, starving yourself and all that stuff. So I mean, obviously, the price and and investment, and is this gonna be another thing that says it’s different but isn’t? Or like, how did you finally decide to take the leap?
Isis [00:34:50]:
Truly, financial constraints were one of my biggest it my biggest constraint, period. So what I loved was I felt comfortable. I think, if I remember right, I reached out to you, Ali, and you talked to me about the early bird, and it was just like it was that moment of I know it’s a buzzword, investing in myself, but now that I literally work in finance, I truly recognize and appreciate a solid sound investment. And that was a moment of, okay, this is x amount of dollars, this is gonna cover this. So I do all of the math in my head, but then I thought about, where am I coming from? And why am I afraid of putting this money toward that? What else is this money gonna go toward? Is it going to be something? Is it like a salvation? With with, you know, I look toward this as like mental, you know, building a new foundation for myself. Am I gonna, you know so it was answering all of those questions and then having this opportunity of like, okay, she’s providing a path for me to enable this opportunity. I’m absolutely gonna take it. There was no hesitation regarding your content, regarding your credentials.
Isis [00:36:13]:
I had no hesitation at all. I believed this was it was really just a financial, concern for me at that point in my life.
Ginny [00:36:22]:
We met 1 on 1 before I did the why am I eating this now. And you were like Svengali with figuring things out. Just I mean, we were on the phone for 60 minutes, and it’s like, was she, like, hiding in the guest room of my parents’ house when I was growing up? How did she get how did she figure all of that? It’s crazy. So after that and just your got getting right to the root in 60 minutes, I’m like, daggone. She’s good. Okay. Sign me up.
Ali Shapiro [00:36:49]:
Thank you for saying that. I I appreciate that. And I and I appreciate both of you sharing your thought processes because most of my clients are discerning. Right? It’s not like a lot of people in my space market on fear and scarcity. And I don’t want to do that because you can’t be in a, oh, my God, this has to work tomorrow space to do this work. And so I just I think that’ll really resonate with people who are considering it that it’s like, oh, it’s discerning people. It’s not just like, this is gonna fix me. It’s like it’s the path.
Ginny [00:37:17]:
No. If you’re looking for a quick fix, this is this is not a quick fix. This is a lifetime overhaul. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:37:26]:
So how was this course different than other things that you’ve tried? And, Isis, we’ll start with you.
Isis [00:37:32]:
The difference for me was the immediate learning of self. Like, it was just like, we’re gonna go right in to who you are and how what makes you tick, and we’re gonna learn about these, like Ginny mentioned, already, you know, scientifically proven ways of thinking, mentalities, trends that our brains will fall into and how, you know, the consumerism and the marketing. Going right into that, my feeling was so positive because I knew that is exactly what I needed. I was done being told what to do because I literally thought and and I do believe it was when I signed up for Noom that, like, I just want a person that’d be in charge of da da da da. I’ve got too much going on, too much shit on my plate. It’s like, I still am that person. I probably have triple the amount of shit on my plate today and food is not my go to. I I all of those things are a thing of the past for me, honestly.
Isis [00:38:40]:
And it’s because of the introspection. And I think, if I may, I don’t wanna speak on behalf of anybody, but I do can speak on behalf of me and probably a lot of people who were like me, feeling that sense of fear of doing that work. And I remember when we were working together, there were a lot of gals in the group that I could hear still wanting that fix. You know, like, I think that some of them still came with a slightly and I don’t mean this, like, in a rude way, but, like, in in an immature mentality toward, like, self pollution. And I felt like I could see them, and it it actually helped me balance who and where I was. Because then it was like, okay. They really just want to complain. They really just want someone to hear their struggles.
Isis [00:39:38]:
I’m not hearing them wanting to fix. I’m not hearing them pulling themself out of the the hole that maybe they dug or or circumstances dug for them. I’m just hearing someone crying from the bottom of a hole. And so I was like, I really need to do this work so that I am not that person crying from the bottom of a hole looking up at everybody saying, help me get out. It’s like, oh, I’m the one who can build that ladder and get the hell out of this hole. And those all the work that we did helped me do that, really, truly, monumentally. That and you letting me kinda, like, talk to you and, you know, whether it was after the meeting or or even if I would expunge in the middle of a meeting of, like, something I was really excited about. I just I loved it.
Ali Shapiro [00:40:22]:
Well and, you know, I’m thinking back to our shame conversation and how when we’ve been feel that we’re so wrong for so long, it’s like, how could I possibly have any responsibility in this? I don’t trust myself. Right? And so then we feel that powerlessness at the bottom of the hole and we have to kind of stay there for a while until we realize that that that feeling isn’t necessarily true, that we’re wrong and that we have to stay there, that we we do know stuff. Like, even the stuff that hasn’t worked, we know that that doesn’t work. Like, that takes a lot of work to get to that place in our culture of, like, diets don’t work. I mean, it took me 18 years to be like, oh, hey. I get it. You know?
Ginny [00:41:04]:
Yeah. So Yeah. And it’s it’s it’s hard.
Isis [00:41:07]:
I I practice Buddhism, and one of the things that our brains do is we get hooked. We we get hooked on something, and and we don’t wanna let that go. Right? Our ego is like, but but but this is my survival. This is my protection, and I’m talking about diet culture. And it’s like, I didn’t wanna let go of the idea that I could lose £30 in 3 months because I did it when I was 25. I didn’t keep it off. You know? It’s that subtext, I didn’t keep it off, that I wanna ignore. And I wanna be at 35 telling myself, no.
Isis [00:41:40]:
No. No. Everything’s great. I don’t wanna let go of that hook of the marketing and all of the consumerism that diet culture sold me. I wanna let it go. So it was finally after the pandemic where I was like, holy shit. It’s it’s really time to let that go. I’m I’m a I’m a mom.
Isis [00:41:59]:
I’m a mature adult. This is stupid. I need to do some some real work and and find out how to build a ladder out of this.
Ali Shapiro [00:42:08]:
What about you, Ginny? How is the course different for you?
Ginny [00:42:11]:
Well, you know, going into it, I you don’t know what to expect going in. And I think one of the first things that came out of my mouth, which is saying a lot because I talk a lot, was something along the lines of just give me homework. I’m I’m great at homework. You tell you give me the ABCs of it, and I will conquer it tomorrow. You tell me what to do. And, yeah, that’s not what your program is at all. That’s not the game you play. So that was a big difference.
Ginny [00:42:38]:
And giving me the here’s how you make it work with, you know, weight washers and following points and Noom and doing lessons, obviously, wasn’t working anyway. So once I was able to set aside, oh, she’s not gonna, you know, give me the exact formula for how Ginny and Virginia is gonna lose all her weight. This opportunity to, as you say, be in choice and to have option a, b, and c, to to be in choice, to to be able to take an educated view at my options, it’s not something that’s promoted in any other program. And I think in large measure I mean, not to bash them, but, you know, Weight Watchers didn’t get where it is by being touchy feely and and helping you get to the root of your, you know, your your trauma. It’s give us your money, and we’ll give you a program that if you are magic, you will succeed in or Oprah and have lots and lots and lots of money at a personal shelf.
Ali Shapiro [00:43:38]:
But Oprah didn’t even succeed on weight watchers alone. I mean, that’s the thing. It’s like Oprah talked about it. She used to, like, pay her bodyguard to not let her sneak out and get food. I mean, I’m pretty sure I remember that, and she still managed to find it. You know? So
Ginny [00:43:55]:
Well, Oprah and I, you know, as as close as our bank accounts are. Yeah. And I don’t have that luxury. So your program definitely puts the onus on me and not in a bad way, in a really good way, in a very empowering way.
Ali Shapiro [00:44:11]:
I’m glad that both of you brought that up because part of what we don’t realize is the Nooms of the world, the Weight Watchers, it’s the rigidity that’s the problem. Right? But we feel like, oh, if we stick to the rigidity and it doesn’t account for real life. Did I sleep last night? Am I trying to lift bench press 325 in the gym and hike? There’s no dynamic nature to it that honors real life. So it’s like we hate the rigidity, but then we crave it if we feel like we don’t have kind of a path forward or someone but we don’t need some I I think the differentiation is you don’t need someone else to tell you what to do, but you do need a structure or a path to figure out what you do need to do. And but it has flexibility because I like that you talked about being in choice, Jenny. Because when we meet our needs, the reason we focus on needs and why I’m adding this now is because there’s a lot of choices. Right? So if I need rest, maybe I can’t sleep, you know. However, maybe it’s taking a walk because that’s what is accessible.
Ali Shapiro [00:45:12]:
So there’s flexibility, but you still have the structure of of how to tend to yourself. So I’m glad though that both of you brought that up because to me, especially and again, I know I’m some years into this developmental journey, but I remember when I wanted someone to tell me what to do. And now I see the freedom and not having or maybe hearing what people suggestion, but having enough discernment of what works for me to say, I don’t know. It’s just saved me a lot of time and energy. But it’s a lot there’s a learning curve to to the discernment.
Ginny [00:45:43]:
It saved me time and energy too. But I have to tell you now, I go into so many things with just a tiny ounce of skepticism, like, a really podiatrist. The answer to my problem here is, I don’t know. Let’s look at my diet first. So, yeah, I I you know, just a little skeptical.
Isis [00:45:59]:
One other point that just came up in my head while we were talking that I don’t think a lot of the marketing and and the diet culture understands is while this rigidity may breed a success in a percentage of clientele, what they miss the mark on is the resentment that builds within obligations. Any time a human is obligated to do anything, they bitch and moan within weeks. And and you’re doing you’re cheating, quote, unquote. You’re doing all of these things, and it’s yourself. It’s your decision. It’s your autonomy. Right? And and you’re sitting there, like, cheating on your diet. It’s like you’re the only person keeping score, FYI, you know? And and and, like, if you’re resenting what’s going on, why are you acting like you’re breaking through the jail? It’s all in your head.
Isis [00:46:59]:
It’s all in your head. So I always notice that when I think about someone saying, oh, I have to go meet my friend this week, and I’m like, oh, it sounds like an obligation and you sound like you resent your friend. That really sucks for you. How can you change that dynamic? You know? Like, can you do something that you wanna do with your friend, or can you just cancel? Be honest. But, yeah, that that’s something I always hear is this resentment. And and it’s just that idea of, like, being held within the the confines that you asked for. In diet culture.
Ali Shapiro [00:47:31]:
Yeah. That’s a good point. What I think we’re so trained to think that’s the only way. Right? Right now at this cultural moment, it’s either you do diets and that’s what works, meaning weight loss, regardless of the cost to it. Or you can’t care about your weight and your health and it’s just eat whatever and yeah. And and not just eat whatever, but, like, let’s not focus on, again, the reality that, like, your food doesn’t determine how well you sleep, your quality of life. So we’re we’re caught in a very interesting polarization, not just politically, but because, again, my work is developmental. I think it’s like, oh, it’s the socialized mind.
Ali Shapiro [00:48:10]:
Right? It’s like how we start as as adults and our job is to be more flexible.
Isis [00:48:14]:
Well, it’s almost a damned if you do damned if you don’t because if you think about some of our big cultural icons like Oprah or like Lizzo, when they lose weight after praising their size, they get criticized for losing weight. And it’s like, well, so what? They decreased in mass. So what? You know, like like, why are we weighing on this and why is it our so called right to tell this person? Like, it’s just such a bizarre reality in social media that gets emphasized when these when these media stars do things with their body, and it has this, like, idea that it’s an okay conversation to comment on another human body. And it it’s all about, alright, I should be able to tell this person that they’re too fat. Like, who the hell am I? I’m not their doctor. It’s such a far like, I’m teaching my children that it is absolutely not okay for anyone ever to comment on your body unless it’s it’s an actual physiotherapy situation, like your doctor, your physical therapy. It’s just not okay, and you can shut that shit down right away.
Ali Shapiro [00:49:28]:
Yeah. We’re we’re teaching Esa about informed consent. You know? Even though as a boy, if he gets it, then he will understand that women should be, you know I mean, if he’s heteronormative or whatever the word is. But so we’re like, you know, if you don’t want grandma and pop pop to kiss you or a vousinabal, like, you just say my body, my choice. And so the other day, I was like, I’m gonna give you a kiss. And he’s like, I don’t wanna kiss my body, my choice. And I was like, okay. I but it’s just so funny to hear it coming out of, like, a 4 year old’s mouth.
Ali Shapiro [00:49:58]:
But but he this is how we learn. Like, okay. The norm is not just anyone can come up and do anything they want to you. And so then you can’t do that to anybody. You know? I I want him to realize that. Do you not love Isis and Ginny as much as I do? There are struggles that so many of us can relate to. And the vulnerability to be hopeful that things could be different. Hope is such a vulnerable emotion and that courage to look inward and the humor that is essential for any healing journey.
Ali Shapiro [00:50:32]:
We laugh a lot in my group programs. I’m so lucky I get to work with women like this. I also find it breathtaking that whether you have 3 eating disorder diagnosis, like ISIS or like Jenny, you just started battling food in your thirties, or someone like me who had all this complexity surrounding health and weight and chronic illness at the time. And yet the common invisible thread root cause we all need to tend to is belonging. It’s such an elegant solution to tend to this, let alone efficient and can offer you results that just are unheard of if you don’t know to look at this belonging thread. And that’s why Isis was like, I probably have tripled the amount of things on my plate, but food isn’t my go to. Or Ginny actually finds going to the library alone more satisfying now than ice cream. That’s the power of understanding this belonging thread and really cultivating an adult sense of belonging of I’ve got my own back.
Ali Shapiro [00:51:37]:
But without understanding your true needs, we think food is the only way to secure the rest, relaxation, and comfort we need. As you saw in their stories, it’s not about the level of stress. It’s about how resourced we feel. We can increase the sense of resourcefulness by learning what our needs are and how to meet them. That’s when we feel back in control of our life and ultimately food. And let’s be real. We can’t control everything in life, but there’s a lot that we can control so that we feel we can rise to the occasion. And so not only do we not turn to food, but we build the resourcefulness to meet those moments.
Ali Shapiro [00:52:20]:
And that also includes having the resourcefulness to feel joy and happiness and creativity. And then food falls away on its own. No white knuckling required. Isis and Jenny shared such great stuff that we decided to add a part 2. We discuss how bad joiners like them, and frankly me, how even being a bad joiner, the Why Am I Eating This Now community was essential to their leapfrogs and growth. We’ll also discuss the difference between self monitoring versus self awareness and how to satisfy your food noise triggers without food. And we also discuss Isis’ Ozempic experience. If you’re someone who’s using any of the GLP one drugs and peptides, why am I doing this now is still for you? Right? When we stop turning to food, our problems are still there.
Ali Shapiro [00:53:11]:
And we still need to learn how to resolve them so that we don’t eat when we’re not hungry. And also, if you want to come off these drugs, you’re going to have to resolve that stuff. And just so you know, this community is a non dogmatic place. If you want to lose weight, great. If you don’t want to lose weight, great. It’s not really the focus of what we talk about. But definitely subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss this enlightening episode when it drops. And again, my live, Why Am Iiting This Now group program is open for registration through Monday, September 16th.
Ali Shapiro [00:53:46]:
I only run this program once a year. So if you’re interested, definitely do your research now. And again, if you want a free sample of the program, come to the masterclass on Tuesday, September 10th, untangle your food triggers, catch yourself before you fall off track. The link is in the show notes for both the program and the free masterclass, Or you can sign up for the masterclass@alyshapero.comback/waietnhyphenmasterclass.
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