How Self-Awareness and Community Can Heal Your Eating Triggers with Ginny and Isis (Ali interviews 2 participants from her "Why Am I Eating This Now?" Group Program)

Too many of us feel like we have to go it alone with food. We put so much work into trying to lose weight and get healthy, but we just end up feeling isolated and ashamed.

In this episode, I’m joined by my clients Ginny and Isis to talk about why all of us (even the “bad joiners”!) need community support to heal our food triggers, and how working alongside other people can improve our self-awareness, self-talk, and self-esteem.

This is part two of a conversation about the transformations Ginny and Isis experienced in my program Why Am I Eating This Now?.

Tune in to hear us discuss:

Why even “bad joiners” need community
Self-monitoring vs self-awareness
The ways Why Am I Eating This Now? can support weight loss
How to satisfy your food noise triggers without food
Why you are not your coping strategies
Isis’ Ozempic experience
What you can expect if you join Why Am I Eating This Now? this fall

Mentioned in this episode:

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My Conversation with Ginny and Isis (Transcript)

Ali Shapiro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Insatiable, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of food, psychology, and culture.

Ginny [00:00:08]:
I don’t know if I could quantify how much of a difference this has made for me. It’s extended beyond just what I eat, when I eat, how I eat, into getting to know who I am, what I do, why I do it the way I do it. But there’s also this inner dialogue that I never had, where it’s kind of like this whole conversation that I have with myself now that’s really interesting.

Ali Shapiro [00:00:35]:
I’m your host, Ali Shapiro, an integrated health coach, 32 year and counting cancer survivor, and have radically healed my relationship with food and my body. And for the past 17 years, I’ve been working with clients individually, in group programs, and in company settings to do the same. Welcome. The information in this podcast should not be considered personal, individual, or medical advice. Hey, Insageable listeners. Today’s episode is a continuation of the conversation we started in episode 282. So go back and listen to that first. But this is where we’re continuing to talk with Ginny and Isis about my why am I eating this now live program.

Ali Shapiro [00:01:24]:
In that last episode, we talked about like what’s really going on underneath our emotional eating, why it’s really important to have a process that doesn’t tell you what to do but teaches you how to better take care of yourself. It was a great conversation. But we had so much good stuff that they shared, that we wanted to do the 2nd episode. And this episode has a different focus. What we’re really talking about here today is the importance of community. And I really wanted to highlight this because my clients and Isis and Ginny also said, you know, we probably mostly identify as bad joiners. And so if you identify as a bad joiner or your knee jerk reaction is just, groups, community, not my thing. I really want you to pay attention to this because when we isolate ourselves further and further in our food journey, that actually activates more eating triggers and activates us falling off track more.

Ali Shapiro [00:02:24]:
So we need to come into community and it has to be the right community. And so we talk about that today. And then the other big thing I want you to pay attention to here is the difference between self awareness and self monitoring. And that’s because a lot of us self monitor a lot. Or what are they gonna think if I order that? Or what are they gonna think of what my body looks like in this? And we confuse that with self awareness. And why am I in this now is really about the inner work of self awareness around our emotional eating triggers and how to resolve that. So really pay attention to that part of the conversation. And lastly, we get in more in this conversation into the nuances of weight loss goals, weight loss, Isis’ own experience with Ozempic from a health perspective.

Ali Shapiro [00:03:09]:
And I think that’s just really important because if you are considering joining Y Miting this now, when I’ve been talking with people, it’s like, is it okay if I wanna lose weight? And I wanna tell you, that’s fine if you wanna lose weight. I have never been about you can’t or can lose weight. Like you should want to lose weight or you shouldn’t wanna lose weight. I think that’s up for you to decide. And my whole premise is that part of why weight loss is so damaging is when we think it is tied to our worth and we think that thin at any cost is what we wanna do versus my approach is how can weight loss actually strengthen your relationship with yourself? How can we do it in a gentle, sustainable, nurturing way? And I think when you hear our conversation, you’ll get a better idea of what I mean by that. And so if you’re considering joining why am I doing this now and you wanna lose weight, you are welcome. If you don’t wanna lose weight or you’re trying not to gain weight, you’re also welcome. If you want to come to change your relationship with food and weight just isn’t part of the equation, you’re also welcome.

Ali Shapiro [00:04:14]:
Because ultimately, what you’ll discover is this is about belonging. It’s not about calories. It’s not about being good with food. Consistency with our food is about this belonging piece. So all are welcome. But listen to this this conversation as I think it’ll spark some clarity for you and much needed, you know, as I joke, moderation is the new radical around these kind of body and weight and health conversations. So enjoy today’s episode. And again, we are dropping this on Monday, September 9th.

Ali Shapiro [00:04:45]:
If you are interested in why am Iting this now, come to the free master class happening tomorrow, Tuesday, September 10th, 2024 at 12 pm Eastern Standard Time. And you can sign up for free in the show notes and it’s a free class, master class called untangle your food triggers, catch yourself before you fall off track. I’m gonna take you through a really powerful coaching exercise that will give you self awareness around your emotional eating triggers. So check that out. And the the program itself is open for registration through Monday, September 16th. Okay? I only run this program once a year. It’s 12 weeks. It will totally change your relationship to food and most importantly, for your sustainable results yourself.

Ali Shapiro [00:05:37]:
Okay? So enjoy today’s episode. And again, if you wanna learn more about Ginny and Isis, listen to episode 282. They’re amazing. They’re so fun. And on to today’s show. One of the things I keep hearing from people who who do take my group programs is how life changing the community can be. And so, Ginny, we’ll start with you. How would you describe the community in why am I doing this now? And specifically, because a lot of online courses are starting to add a community aspect.

Ali Shapiro [00:06:12]:
And if you’ve been part of other online communities, what do you think makes this community unique?

Ginny [00:06:18]:
Well, it’s funny because you you mentioned I don’t remember if it was before or after you started the actual podcast that you had just gotten off a call with Tiffany and Jackie who were in we were all in truce with food together. And it was like, oh, I missed them. How are they doing? They’re doing really well. You know, the bond is is huge. But what I think is is really important when it comes to a group dynamic, and what I think you facilitate well is that it’s important not to provide advice. It’s important not to be judgmental. So that I’m not going into this expecting so and so to have all the answers. I’m expecting so and so to just say, yeah, that’s tough.

Ginny [00:06:57]:
And sometimes, that’s all it takes. And to have know that you’re not the only one out there who’s really not getting this homework, or feels kinda crappy because she ate a whole pizza the night before, or really super psyched for you because it’s like, oh my gosh. You’re not gonna believe this. I would normally have done x y z, but this time, I was able to do a b c and to have, you know, a group cheering for you is huge. And I don’t know that I would have said that under normal circumstances, I would have jumped on the, I really need to share this bandwagon. You know, I’ve got I’m very close to my sisters. I’m very close to my husband. I have a wonderful stepdaughter.

Ginny [00:07:40]:
I mean, you know, I have a great family support system, but they’re not in this this milieu. They’re not they’re not in the suit with me. And to have these ladies or ladies or gentlemen, they happen to be all ladies in our group, who really get it is incredibly supportive, incredibly uplifting. I’ve been in other situations where there’s a, like, a group chat. I did some teaching online briefly, and one of the requirements was that you had to post an introduction of your you know, post an intro to yourself on the group chat board, and you have you have to have 2 responses to 1 to 2 posts every week. You have and it’s like, oh, that sucks. I mean, this is just like an obligation. Who the heck cares? Who’s reading it? What’s the point? Where with the why am I eating this now community, it is a community.

Ginny [00:08:37]:
And one of the values that I’ve taken away from these programs and that I’ve learned about myself is that a community is important. And it doesn’t have to be why am I eating this now community. It’s a political community. I sing with this group community. I really love these kinds of books community. I watch crappy TV community. I mean, whatever it is, that’s how you that that’s how you really get to be comfortable in your own skin by having a nonjudgmental support. And that’s that’s a 100% what what the group gave.

Ali Shapiro [00:09:08]:
I love that you brought up about, like, I’m not like, let me tell you all this because I know that the shame from dieting and failing in my weight made me really isolate myself and be and and I even was like, I’m a bad joiner And I still am a quote unquote bad joiner in the sense that I I hate dogmatic communities in gen like, you know, where there and though one of the biggest things I hear from people is like after after why am I doing this now or another program is like, wow. I didn’t know what I didn’t know about needing this kind of community. And I think in, you know, we’re both we’re all American and it’s like the values around independence and doing it all for yourself. It’s like, oh, if I need a community, you know, it’s it’s it’s almost like instead of like community is life. So I’m I’m glad that you brought that up because I know a lot of people who ident who join my groups identify with the bad joiner. And so this is a group for bad joiners and people who already get that they need community. What about you, Isis?

Isis [00:10:11]:
Yeah. I would just kinda reiterate everything Jenny just said. I think the the key points though that I wanna emphasize are your facilitation. And if it weren’t for the topics that the community is engaged in, then that’s that is so unique to this this program. It it’s like I mean, I’ve been a part of online communities, especially since the pandemic and also working a 100% remote for almost 7 years now. I have a lot of different, like, channels where I need to communicate with many different people on different levels. But when I’m looking at something that is, like, soul searching and and, like, really, you know, nutritious on on a holistic level, I I am absolutely the definition of a bad joiner. I I am.

Isis [00:11:11]:
I’ve just been it it it you know, and it’s it’s got a lot to do with with childhood trauma and a lot of those other things and having been in group therapy and and, like, knowing myself personally, I would never be a good therapist because I just get so tired of of broken records. And the thing though is in, like, in in these communities though, I didn’t you don’t hear that. You hear genuine curiosity for yourself and for others, and that is what is so unique is, like, the hallmark that you’re assigned is just about you. It’s how to be curious and mindful and intentional about you and nobody else. And so when you have this community that’s going through this with you and kind of, like, maybe even uncovering things that they weren’t ready to uncover and giving them a safe space to experience what they need to experience to get to the other side. That was also a reason why it felt like a a monumental shift for me. It was like hearing my fellow humans suffering on these individual, but yet like, very authentic levels, but yet together through this process, uncovering the layers of our our, you know, each of our little onions and and getting to that core of why am I eating this now? And and just, like, really, what what is I am not a robot. Why am I acting like a robot? And admitting these things to other people.

Isis [00:12:48]:
And we might commiserate, but then we go right into the work of like, okay. What kind of thinking is this? What is this triggered by? And and can I, every time, go into this mentality? And then admitting, you know, our falters, like, I’d still opened the fridge and sucked it into my face for 20 minutes, and then I walked away in a daze. So it’s like admitting this to other people, again, that safe space, but they know what you know. Right? Because we’re going through this material together. They know that you’re studying this type of black and white thinking. They know that you’re sitting there going through potential, like, trauma informed responses. They know these things. You don’t have to be completely transparent with them.

Isis [00:13:35]:
Like, you don’t have to sit like you’re in a therapy situation, but you can feel safe enough to know that they have your back and and they’re not gonna judge you. And, Ali, you’re gonna facilitate the situation to calmly, you know, shepherd the group along at the pace that that everybody needs to kinda to get through their shit together.

Ali Shapiro [00:13:58]:
I like that you what you brought up. I mean, both of you I appreciate both of your answers so much. And, Isis, when you said, like, we’re gonna feel this, we’re gonna be in it, and then we’re gonna get to work because I found when I was struggling with food. Right? Your friends who are love you are like, don’t worry about it. You’re fine. And I’m like, but I’m in pain. Like, I’m going home when you’re not with me and I’m over bingeing at night or I’m waking up and I feel gross in my body. And so it’s like people who love you, they and if they haven’t gone through it, they have no idea.

Ali Shapiro [00:14:30]:
So I think it’s about, like, again, in this polarization, I see, like, I see the polarization of, like, don’t feel your feelings at all. Stuff them down. This is a logic problem that is about nutrient dense foods. And then I see the other side of, like, I can’t hold my feelings, so I can’t even work through them. Like, I’m just like, ah. Like, I wanna take space where that isn’t true to life. Right? Like, I just I don’t want anyone to hurt my feelings. And and and I think what you described is, hopefully, what I’m trying to create is like, we need both.

Ali Shapiro [00:15:03]:
But we need to feel our feelings first and then know how to hold them so that we can we can get out of the pain of of eating when we don’t want to be in that sense. So you mentioned therapy and it’s not a therapy setting, which I love that Isis. And people have said, you know, this isn’t therapeutic, but it’s their their it isn’t therapy, but it’s therapeutic. How do you and, Ginny, I don’t know. Have you been to therapy, Ginny?

Ginny [00:15:29]:
Oh, yeah. What did that hate?

Ali Shapiro [00:15:32]:
I know. I know. Right? I’m like, what type of therapy? I did this and this and this and thirties. Yeah. But and and Isis too since you were in eating disorder therapy, maybe you could tell us specifically how you think this is different because it it isn’t therapy, but it is therapeutics. Well, at least that’s what people tell me.

Isis [00:15:52]:
Yeah. Eating disorder therapy is very intense depending on the level of, like, inpatient, outpatient. So oftentimes, you have a nutritionist, you have your therapist, and you have your PCP. Right? And so they’re all monitoring your progress. If you’re inpatient, it’s far more intense. And I’ve also done EMDR. I’ve done cognitive behavioral therapy for several years, and I’ve done hypnotherapy. And now I’m absolutely in love with the game changing experience of somatic therapy.

Isis [00:16:24]:
That’s huge for me. But this is not therapy. It is a situation where I think if you’ve never been in therapy, you may confuse it in that way because it does ask you to do self work, which is therapeutic. But when I think about therapy, I think about a space that is so necessary for me to feel incredibly vulnerable, at my most vulnerable, so that I can share details that may still trigger a response with extreme I have CPTSD. So if I I will never feel comfortable in a group setting sharing those things. I I know that I can only do that with a licensed medical therapist or clinical social worker, psychologist, or psychiatrist. So it is vastly different for me having decades of of of therapy as well because while I may have CBT, right, I might just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk to my therapist. At the end of that session, my therapist will go right to the to the meat of it and be like, you’re being very superficial.

Isis [00:17:39]:
What’s bothering you this week? You know, and it’s that jarring moment of being in therapy with a really great person who’s like, cut the shit. Let’s get right to the meat. You’re you’re you’re you’re you’re not you’re colluding all of these details and you sound like you’re hiding something from me. I don’t get that with you, which is good. It’s a far more gentle experience of of, like, here’s the material. Here’s the purpose of the material. Here’s how I want you to experience the material. Let’s talk about it.

Isis [00:18:12]:
Let’s process it. Now go home, continue your process, see how it applies to your life, and let’s bring it back. And that that’s the therapeutic output of your program. But, again, it is a far more it’s a far more learning a shared learning environment than I would say a therapy session.

Ginny [00:18:33]:
I have a phenomenal therapist. I adore her. I think she’s wonderful. But your program differs in that it’s there’s sort of an educational component. There’s there’s definitely a figure out who you are, figure out how who you are defines what you eat, how you relax, you know, etcetera. There’s definitely a personal component to it. There’s also an education side to it. I mean, there’s there’s things you’re reading.

Ginny [00:19:00]:
There’s there’s there’s lessons that you’re doing. There’s research that’s being applied. So it’s it’s a little broader than an individual therapy session, and it’s a little more all inclusive. I mean, you know, you can’t tailor your your program to what does Jenny and Virginia need because, I mean, you know, Isis would be bored out of her mind. So that’s where therapy is is wonderful, and and my therapist is great because she’s all about me. Where this program is, you’re giving me you’re giving me tools to learn about me in more of a group setting where I can bounce ideas off of others.

Ali Shapiro [00:19:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. And I and I appreciate both of you sharing that because I even in materials, it’s kinda like if this is like your first personal development rodeo, right, it’s probably not for you because I think also what I got from therapy was the ego sometimes is used in a negative sense. But in Eastern thought, the ego is like, are you do you feel like you can have impact in the world? Like, do you feel like you have enough of a of a cohesive ego that you can, you know, live life on not on your terms, but do you know what I mean? Like, survive in the world. And so I think therapy is really helpful. At least my therapeutic experiences have been really helpful and, like, repairing that ego structure and making me feel like, oh, I’m a I’m a grown ass adult. You know? I can do this stuff.

Ali Shapiro [00:20:27]:
And I think this work forces you to have enough of an ego structure that you’re willing to look at. Like, the stuff that that is is not in your past but is in your present. Right? Like, oh, oh, I life isn’t just coming at me. Like, oh, I can make that choice. So but I think your descriptions are much more practical and helpful. So one of the questions I wanted to ask and is what sort of self awareness and personal growth have you gained and why did this matter with your food triggers?

Ginny [00:21:02]:
I don’t know if I could quantify how much of a, of a difference this has made for me. It’s extended beyond just what I eat, when I eat, how I eat, into a real getting to know who I am, what I do, why I do it the way I do it. But there’s also just really weird, like, inner dialogue that I never had where it’s kind of like, alright. You’ve got leftover spaghetti at home, Jenny. Do you want the spaghetti? Do you really want the spaghetti? Or would would you want something else? Well, let’s see. If you wanted something else well, wait. I mean, there’s, like, this whole conversation that I have with myself now that’s kind of really interesting. There’s a health for me isn’t isn’t a number on a scale.

Ginny [00:21:48]:
I don’t have batteries in my scale. I haven’t had batteries in my scale since I started this program. I don’t have any idea what I weigh. I don’t look at when the doctors weigh me, I don’t look Because it’s not it’s not about that anymore. It’s it’s about yesterday, I was just exhausted. I was so tired, and it was then okay. What did I eat? Is it is it my is it my food? Well, maybe I need to increase you know, maybe I needed a little more fat. So we’ll try that the next time.

Ginny [00:22:17]:
Or today, it was going on 11:30, and I often do hot yoga at noon. And I’m like, do I really wanna do the hot yoga? And it’s like, well, you know what? Your knees have been really bugging you. You’ve been sitting at a desk all day. Yeah. Let’s let’s go to yoga. Let’s do it. So that to me is health. That to me is is fun.

Ginny [00:22:35]:
Instead of sleeping in, it’s maybe we’ll go for a walk on the beach. So to be honest with you, I would never have used the word fun when I came to describe my inner monologue. There’s nothing fun about what was going on prior to these classes. It it was a whole lot of blame and shame. But now it it is definitely it’s open to so cheesy. It’s open to dialogue with myself, and I love me. But you know what? I I I actually I enjoy the the learning, and that’s something that I ever, ever would have had an opportunity to do if I hadn’t done this program. I wouldn’t have had that connection to me, and I wouldn’t have had this revolutionary health isn’t just, you know, wearing your size 4 jeans from high school.

Ginny [00:23:19]:
Health is singing with with a choir that I sing with, and, getting to spend time with my sisters, and playing with my cats, and being able to say, you know what? Tag on it. It’s Thursday at 5 o’clock in the afternoon. I just wanna sit here and read a book and be okay with it. So that’s that’s a whole lot of of what has has really opened my eyes from this program. It also touched on food too. I mean, like I said, I’m I’m more cognizant of what I’m eating, and I’m I’m definitely trying to to be better, but I’m not beating myself up over it. It’s not it’s not a you did this wrong, you know, you you failed again. It’s it’s a dialogue.

Ginny [00:24:00]:
It’s a learning experience, and and it’s great. It’s wonderful. It’s exciting.

Ali Shapiro [00:24:07]:
I love that because I think diet culture, our parents, and ice you know, Isis, it was your mom. It was my dad. And again, my dad, it wasn’t the same situation as with Isis. But so much of what we think is our is our dialogue is actually culture. And then it’s like, that’s not me. And so when we get a glimpse of like, how would how do I how am I really? It’s so fun to meet ourselves that way. Exactly.

Ginny [00:24:33]:
Meet ourselves. I love that. That’s exactly that’s exactly the way it feel.

Ali Shapiro [00:24:39]:
Thank you, Ginny. What about you, Isis? What sort of self awareness have have you gained and how has that influenced your eating triggers?

Isis [00:24:48]:
Yeah. Oh, I I really like this question because I was it was definitely a catalyst for me, this experience, because a lot of what Ginny just said is meeting yourself. And before I really thought these thoughts, even after years of therapy, I still wasn’t getting to the root of self loathing. Why would I hate myself? What did I do to deserve my own hate? Why am I my least favorite person? Right? What the hell happened in my brain where I am practically smearing shit on every single mirror when I see myself. I hate what I see so badly. What did I do? I didn’t do anything. I allowed all of this information to inform and misinform my output. Right? So I would say things like, oh, I feel so fat.

Isis [00:25:48]:
Like, fat isn’t a feeling. But the fact is is I felt inadequate. I felt unworthy. I felt less than others, and I thought these other things would help me achieve the level of self satisfaction that was always here in my heart the whole freaking time. So doing this work with this program, like, to kind of revisit the whole therapy thing, what it did was it informed me on the direction I wanted to take my therapy much better. Right? I was able to talk about trauma. I was able to talk about my eating disorders, but I wasn’t getting to the point of why the hell did this start. Right? Why did I why do I still blame myself for being a victim of something? Who told me that that was okay? How can I change being a victim into being a survivor and then being a thriver, right? And not just use this language that’s very kitschy.

Isis [00:26:48]:
One of the key things I recognize in myself now is I don’t have to go up to someone and say, hey. I changed. Right? I don’t have to do that. I don’t give a shit. I changed. Right? I know in my makeup how much I am so different than who I was 5 years ago because this started that journey, and it made me so much more aware of how awesome I am and how much I have to bring to my family, to myself, to the trails when I hike. Like, I am so full of joy when I’m out and about in the world. Like, I interact with that cashier.

Isis [00:27:30]:
Genuinely, I hope you’re having a really good day. Sorry I grabbed something that doesn’t have a price tag on it. Think it was 3.99. You know? And just like being genuine with people, it it’s like I want to leave such a much better mark on the world than how it was when I came into it, and I know that starts with me. I’m done saying, oh, I hate myself. Oh, I’m not, you know, good, and I’ll be too the fad or I’ll be too whatever. That’s not true. It’s not serving me anymore.

Isis [00:27:59]:
It stopped serving me. And this is such an empowering like, while it uncovers things that we’re vulnerable and we’re uncomfortable with, that recognition truly empowers us to to take the hold of the reins of who we are and and be like, yeah. I’m awesome. It’s time. It’s time the world saw

Ali Shapiro [00:28:19]:
me. Oh, I love that this time the world saw me. Yes. Well and I think now that we’re all, like, adults. Right? And I think once we you get over the age of 35, it’s like choose your heart. Right? And and there can be ease. I mean, part of the part of my own journey these past couple of years is like you can trust in ease. Not easy, but maybe you don’t have to work so hard.

Ali Shapiro [00:28:39]:
You can rest. But you can either not look at this stuff and then continue to kind of fight food and and or it comes out in these weird ways. Or you can look at it and move through the hard, I think, with the right structure and support. And I think what both of you are making me think of is I had this woman, Andrea Nakayama, on the podcast who is a wonderful practitioner. And she said, my self care is being self aware. And I love that because that’s what you guys are describing. And what I think is so I don’t know if tragic is the word, but is that a lot of us confuse the self monitoring of, oh, that person’s gonna think that I’m eating too much or that person’s gonna think I’m rude. And we confuse that self monitoring with self awareness.

Ali Shapiro [00:29:29]:
And we go on our whole life thinking we know ourselves when really we what we think we know is other people’s perception of us. And in this world of like again, I love a good Enneagram, a good astrology chart. I love all the stuff. But, like, at the end of the day, what does that look like in my current life? And and my preferences is is definitely it’s a fascinating and fun journey. Okay. So we have we’ve touched on weight loss. And I think we I do want to touch on the elephant in the room, which is weight loss. Right? Because when to talk about food in our culture, I think you don’t even hear the food.

Ali Shapiro [00:30:06]:
You just hear wait, wait. Right? Often. That’s where we still are culturally. Now, and why am I doing this now? Some people come in wanting to lose weight. Some people don’t wanna gain weight and others just wanna change the relationship with food. Right? And this isn’t to fault ourselves with where we are in our, in, in our process. Did either of you come into Y am I in this now wanting to lose weight? And now that you’ve been through the process, is that still a goal? And if so, how do you see the skills you gained in this process being part of a sustainable weight loss process? So, Isis, we’ll kick off with you. I think it’s your turn.

Ginny [00:30:42]:
I did come into this with a weight loss focus, and that is not my focus anymore. Now it’s it it’s definitely it’s it’s a relationship with not only with food, but with my with learning who I am. So, again, I don’t have a working scale. I don’t know if I’ve lost weight or not. My clothes still fit. So I haven’t gained weight, but it it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter to me. You know, that’s not that’s not my focus now.

Ginny [00:31:08]:
Yeah.

Ali Shapiro [00:31:09]:
I think that’s though you know, you saying you haven’t gained weight because your clothes still fit. I think we don’t take that as if we’re going to put it in a frame, a win enough. Like all the work that you were putting into food and trying to lose weight, it’s like we have this assumption that the harder I work, the better the results. And it’s like I haven’t been working as hard, and I’m getting the same results. Like, what?

Ginny [00:31:32]:
Very true. See, this is why you you should keep doing your job because, yes, that’s exact that’s exactly right. I know I didn’t see it that way, but you’re right. It’s it’s it’s so nice not to be stressing about, you know, well, do I want pay should I eat the 3rd piece of pizza? It’s it’s nice to just be like, okay. I don’t know. What do I want? Let’s think about this. What what do I have going on tomorrow? Am I going to the gym? Do I need to have energy in the morning? You know, it’s it’s so much more than just, should I eat the bad food? So yeah. Yeah.

Ali Shapiro [00:32:05]:
And, again, it’s you know, I I love that you said you didn’t wanna lose weight. There’s no shame in that. Right? And and I’m one of the people that I just don’t care if people want to or not. And what’s not talked about enough in in sustainable weight loss is that when you’ve been yo yoing, what you really need to do to actually lose weight is to have a period of sustainability where your body’s like, I trust that I’m getting enough food. Like, you have to reset from all of that. And so we’re always just looking at, like, is the scale going down that I’m succeeding versus I’m repairing right now. I’m I’m I’m sending a signal of safety to my body that, hey, you’ve got enough inputs coming in. And people might not wanna hear that, but that is part of sustainable weight loss is is ending the yo yoing and having a period where it’s just stability.

Ali Shapiro [00:32:55]:
And you’ve got you, your body thinks you have you. And it your body knows that you’ve got its back.

Isis [00:33:01]:
Well and I wanna say this because I think it’s important for audiences to hear this, is many things can be true. Many things can be true. Right? We can show up with the idea of wanting to lose weight, and we can also know that we really need to maintain so that we can become healthy, or we need to gain because we have been underserving ourselves. Right? We we all of that can be true because we have so many layers to peel and to get to the truth of why are we here. The my personal situation with joining at the time was, like, I was in a quack let me describe it like I was in a nebulous cloud. I was in a cloud of just like, I don’t know how to see myself. I don’t know if this is healthy. I don’t know and, I mean, and this is after years of nutrition and and education, and and I’m a very intelligent person, but I was still able to get to the point where I was like, I got to admit that I don’t know anything, and I need to relearn.

Isis [00:34:14]:
In German, they actually call it, like, unlearning your education. And so there’s a lot of practical steps that I was able to, like, witness of myself, like, okay. I did wanna keep losing weight because I got heavy after starving myself, but my body isn’t finding homeostasis. So I need support in feeling safe and getting to a homeostatic situation. And and and that’s really what the program provided for me was while I thought the things that I always think, I knew even before joining that I wasn’t right, right? I wasn’t in a right space. I wasn’t unhealthy even at the weight that I gained. I was but I wasn’t mentally aware of what was what was right and what was wrong. And that’s why I think it’s important because I know a lot of times we hear that today where many things can be true at the same time.

Isis [00:35:16]:
And and and knowing that gives us the grace and the space to enter into something that may be unfamiliar, or we may be like, well, they may not have lost weight, but I’m gonna use it to lose weight. Like, yeah. Sure. Great. Who cares? Great. Do it. And it might work for you, and that’s fine. I, you know, the the program helped me just, like Jenny also said, have that inner conversation with myself of, yeah, I love pizza.

Isis [00:35:46]:
My kids don’t even like pizza as much as I like pizza. So, like, when they’re not with me, I’ll order, like, 2 pizzas from 2 different places, but I can only eat, like, one slice from from Jets, and then I can only eat one slice from lowdown up in Lafayette. And, like and that’s and then I’ll eat it the rest of the weekend because there’s 2 freaking pizzas in my fridge. But I’m also having my spinach smoothie. I’m making sure I’m watching my protein, you know, otherwise, I’m not gonna be physically active. I’m gonna get sick. So I’m still making informed choices, but I’m also joyous about, like, I love Detroit deep dish. Okay? And if you’re telling me that Denver has a good Detroit deep dish, I’m gonna call your bluff on that by ordering it and then setting out a review.

Isis [00:36:34]:
But, yeah, it it’s so it’s so important, you know, to give people that that that space that you give them with this. Like, it’s okay, show up. So what? So you want to lose weight? Are you doing weight watchers right now and you want to do why am I eating this now? Great. There’s no judgment. Everything can be true. It’s not a one or the other. It’s it’s always like, for some people it is, but, you know, you talk about black and white thinking, like, we can be so myopic with ourselves and unforgiving with ourselves. That way, like you said, you know, we wanna shame ourselves for wanting to lose weight or we wanna shame ourselves for not wanting to lose weight.

Isis [00:37:13]:
Like, you just can’t win. Who cares?

Ali Shapiro [00:37:15]:
Especially being a woman. You can’t win. You can’t lose. So it’s like just gotta step out of the game. What sort of results did you get from focusing on satisfying your food noise triggers without food? So addressing your tail triggers, getting to the root of those, what sort of results? Because I love Jenny. You’re like talking about stuff. You’re like and it’s also about the food. Because it is.

Ali Shapiro [00:37:38]:
And it’s it’s about that. And as Isis’ point holding the and, it’s not either or. It’s about the food and so much more.

Ginny [00:37:45]:
I will say that this program might has not been a question of of deprivation because we have the opportunity to to make our own choices. So it’s if if my choice is to to have ice cream after dinner, you know, that’s that’s that’s my choice. That’s it’s an informed choice. But that informed choice isn’t based on, well, I just feel like the ice cream. It’s based more on, okay, well, what what’s going on in my day? Did did I have a deadline that I was really working towards? I work from home as well. I’ve sat by myself all day. Is it that I’m I really just kind of wanna get out and have a little public interaction. So it’s not just a, I’m gonna grab that ice cream, and I’m gonna eat the bejesus out of that ice cream, and I’m not gonna stop till I see the bottom of the thing.

Ginny [00:38:38]:
It’s fine. Ice cream, cool. Sure. Whatever. Why am I why am I looking to this ice cream? Is there something maybe maybe I just need to take a nap. Maybe I need to to get out of my house and and take a walk, go up to the library and be around people. Because for me, going to library where it’s nice and quiet is, like, the most amazing thing in the world. Maybe that’s what it is.

Ginny [00:39:00]:
So understanding some of those you mentioned tail triggers, has definitely been able to put eating motivation into perspective. And I was I was just relistening to one of your old podcasts where the cookie is not just a cookie So that the, you know, the ice cream isn’t just, I’m gonna bury myself in chocolate chips. It’s, you know, okay. You dropped the ball at work. How do we work on that so that it doesn’t happen again? So it’s, once again, turning it back to it’s really it a a program of of learning who you are, what your motivations are, and giving you really, really good concrete, like the tail tool, concrete ways to say, are you tired? Are you anxious? Are you inadequate? Just give yourself a a more informed option to open up the option c. Well, maybe, yeah, maybe I want the ice cream, but also maybe I need a nap, or maybe I just need to not go out to dinner with my friends tonight as I plan. I’m just too exhausted. So yeah.

Ginny [00:40:07]:
Great.

Ali Shapiro [00:40:07]:
And I’m thinking of someone who hasn’t been through this process and they’re thinking, Jenny, you’re trying to tell me going to the library by yourself is better than eating to the bottom of an ice cream bin? Like, no. I mean, I’ve so I if I hadn’t done this work, I’d be like, no. That is not

Isis [00:40:26]:
I’m like the live stream, guys.

Ginny [00:40:30]:
Okay. I

Ali Shapiro [00:40:31]:
think Not the flavor of ice cream at home is that good.

Ginny [00:40:36]:
Oh, but no. Alright. Sure. On the surface, but you also know the next day, you’re kinda gonna feel like crap. Your energy level’s gonna spike, then you’re gonna crash. You’re gonna be unpleasant to your husband, which I know now and which I didn’t have any perspective for before. And the laboring’s awesome, by the way. I’m just saying.

Ali Shapiro [00:40:54]:
No. I love the library too. We hang out there a lot. So but, yeah, I think if you haven’t been through this, again, we start to think our coping strategies are who we are. So it’s like, I love ice cream. And and I still love ice cream, but I actually never loved eating it to the point where I felt gross. Right? Or to the point that it interfere with my sleep.

Ginny [00:41:16]:
Oh, aren’t aren’t you special? I see. I love it going down.

Ali Shapiro [00:41:22]:
I didn’t love the entire effects of it. Well, let’s put it that way. Isis, what about you?

Isis [00:41:31]:
Yeah. And I know food noise is something that I’m hearing a lot about in different health. I read a lot. I read every day. I’m subscribed to a lot of different podcasts, but mostly, I love to read actual articles. And I’m hearing about a lot of these new GLP one shots, the like Ozempic’s. They’re helping cut out food noise. And I talked because being prediabetic, I was actually on Ozempic 2 years ago before it, like, became a big thing so that it would really help get my numbers down.

Isis [00:42:05]:
Did I lose weight on it? I lost 10 whole pounds, and I needed to get my cholesterol, and I needed to get my a one c, and it did. It did that. And guess what happened when I stopped taking it? I gained the £10 back. And that was the funny thing that my doctor and I talked about. She’s like, I know. It’s a dirty secret. As soon as you stop taking this, you will gain the weight back, like in days. I’m talking 3 to 5 days.

Isis [00:42:34]:
I had my £10 back and I was like, I don’t give a shit. That’s great. I didn’t take it to lose weight. But and and and the side effects were detrimental to my exercise, detrimental to my social life. Like, I because I have an autoimmune disease that deals with my gastrointestinal and and and it’s just like, no. I I only did it for 6 months, got my numbers in a good place, now I’m on Metformin and I’m I’m able to, like, deal with everything in a very healthy way. But the point I’m trying to make is that food noise what is is a is like a an undercurrent for those of us, especially for me, coming from, you know, starting an eating disorder at age 12. So you have this creeping up as your day as Ginny pointed out, as your day gets longer.

Isis [00:43:25]:
You lose willpower as the day goes on. And it it’s it’s not willpower, but what it is is you lose your brain and your body are done making decisions. You make thousands of decisions as soon as you wake up. 1,000. Am I gonna brush my teeth this way? Yeah. Am I gonna use, you know, am I gonna yell at my kids to get up now, or am I gonna give them an extra 15 minutes? You know, all of those decisions are constantly being made by the time it’s like 3 o’clock, and your circadian rhythm’s kicking in, and you’re getting really tired, and you’re just like, okay, I just need sugar. I got 3 more meetings, and then it’s dinner time. So, yeah, you’re just thinking about food because your body actually needs energy.

Isis [00:44:09]:
It’s it’s literally looking like, okay, either you nap or you replenish. How are you gonna do this? I even have it on my calendar. Every day, I have something called intentional replenishment at 2:30 every day. I get up. I walk away from my computer. I get in the grass in my backyard. I drink a shit ton of water or whatever I need to drink at that moment. No energy drinks, and I don’t drink coffee anymore, but it’s usually, like, something that my body can break down quickly, you know, orange juice or tea with honey.

Isis [00:44:41]:
And I just breathe, and I have that quiet moment and I replenishing. Like, I think about it. My kids and I joke. We call it our social battery. And we see it like just where is our social battery at? Do we just wanna go climb into a cave? And that’s okay. Let’s go to our caves and let’s replenish whatever we need to do. But food noise is another joke. You know? By the by that 3, 4, 5, and then 7, 8, 9, at the end of the day, I have another thing I call plop and stop, or rather the other way around, stop and plop.

Isis [00:45:15]:
And that’s me on the couch. Right? Yeah. It’s it’s 7:30. I am done. I’m done making decisions. I am done cleaning. I am done cooking. I am done with the dogs.

Isis [00:45:25]:
Everybody can just go away. Leave me alone. I’m gonna watch selling the Hamptons. Okay? I’m gonna watch it’s just garbage. It’s great. But I’m gonna watch something. Actually, lately, I’ve been enjoying fallout. That’s been awesome.

Isis [00:45:39]:
But I don’t sit there and have the pints of ice cream or whatever at my disposal. I’m a lot more intentional now because I’m making that moment in the middle of the day, and I’m always with my like, I need 3 of these. Colorado, we it’s a desert here. I have to drink a 100 ounces of water a day or I will wither up and float away with the next storm. But it’s like when you make all of these or you’ve had these already staged for yourself ways to be successful. Right? How can I be successful today? Right? And and it’s all these little and and how can I forgive myself for screwing up because I’m not perfect? And so even even, like, Jenny also pointed out, like, yeah, I love ice cream. I do too. And I can’t really eat it a lot because I can’t process it properly.

Isis [00:46:31]:
But what do I do? I will buy pints with my kids, tiny little pints, and we’ll intentionally try something brand new. Like, we had Earl Grey ice cream, and we loved it. But it was just enough because it was rich and weird, and it was like, and it was fun. And it wasn’t like I had one of my big ass bowls with the hard shell fudge on top and then all my sprinkles and chocolate chips and I you know, I don’t need that. Will I go to Cold Stone if I am dying in my head for something? Yeah. I will. I will. And I will stop at the point where I’m like, if I buy a gotta have it, which is that honk, you know, at the size of your head, I’ll eat.

Isis [00:47:20]:
And then I’m pointing it away. And I’m like, if I finish it, I finish it tomorrow. If I don’t, I don’t. And it gets fried freezer burn, and I throw it away. I have to make that financial decision. Is it worth, you know, the $10 for ice cream that I’m crawling and throw away? No. I you know, and that’s that’s the thing, like, when I go on vacation, do I cheat? No. I know my one thing I love is coke.

Isis [00:47:43]:
I’m gonna have coke on vacation, and I’m gonna struggle breaking the coke habit when I come back. But I am absolutely gonna break it when I come back because it’s so bad for prediabetes. But it’s that give and take. Like, did I walk 3 miles every day, every morning? Yeah, because I love it. I’m walking on the Oregon coast. It was a gorgeous vacation. And then did I have soda with my, you know, Dungeness crab at at lunch? Oh, yeah. I did.

Isis [00:48:11]:
You know? And I had butter to dip the crab in. But it is so much more about intention and mindfulness. And and that’s that’s the big bridge that I took of, like, going on a vacation and knowing I love to be healthy and exercise, and I’m probably gonna eat foods that are not local, not a part of my routine. How can I still get things that’ll keep me, you know, healthy and off the toilet? And, you know, having a great time with my kids and still trying, like, oh, they’re doing this new thing with crab cake here, and it’s not like Maryland crab cake. It’s Oregon crab cake, so I gotta try that. You know? And I split it with my kids. It’s this it’s this intention that’s so different than, like, scarcity. Right? Like, I gotta eat this now or it I’m never and I’m never gonna eat it again.

Isis [00:49:09]:
I’m just gonna clear out my pantry. I’m gonna eat it all, and then I’ll start new tomorrow. It’s like, no. There’s so much out there in the world. There’s so much abundance already out there for us. I don’t need all that shit. I just wanna try something, and I’m gonna be very careful and intentional, and I’m gonna pay attention to all my other wins along the way. You know? Because, again, it has to do with, like, I love myself now.

Isis [00:49:34]:
I deserve to love myself and to be careful. It’s not like I deserve a treat. That’s the old me. The new me is like, I deserve self love. This is what it looks like for me. This is what it looks like for my family on vacation, and this is what it looks like for my health.

Ali Shapiro [00:49:49]:
Well, I love what you’re what you’re saying to be intentional and mindful because I think a lot of times when we are in the scarcity or we don’t understand the needs that we need underneath, we think we’re being mindful by being like, should I eat this? Should I not? Should I? But it’s all coming from Am I gonna gain weight or not? Versus like Isis, when you were saying I at 2:30, I need to be replenished because if not, that tire trigger is gonna be there at night. And so I know I need this now to pace my rest. I know at 7:30. Oh, my God. So many decisions to make every day. Like I that is my recharge. And so by learning about that and then once you start doing that, which you start to identify in the program and learn, then it’s like, oh, it really is worth it on vacation or it is really worth it, you know, because I’m actually enjoying it. And because my system is like, you know, I always use the example of like if a lake is polluted, like when I was bingeing, it was just like always feeling like, cloudy and disgusted.

Ali Shapiro [00:50:50]:
And it’s like, oh, what got the other needs met? Then when I was binging on sugar during scansiety season, you know, for my cancer scans, it was like, oh, I feel this differently. Like, oh, now that I’ve had a break from all of this destructive eating, I can sense the difference more. And I think that’s what you’re saying is by meeting the core needs that everyone will learn why I’m eating this now around these triggers, those can get met when it really isn’t about the food. And Doctor. Deborah McNamara, who I had on the podcast this when this is coming out, it was about 3 weeks ago. She quoted her mentor, Doctor. Gordon Newfield, who said nothing is addictive as something that almost works. And he was in he’s talking about how, right, the need is for belonging to ourselves, knowing what we need.

Ali Shapiro [00:51:38]:
Ginny, I love that you said, like, strengthening that connection to self and and and and enjoying ourselves and, like, be liking to be with us. Right? Like Isis, like, I like myself. I do too. And it’s like, we’re allowed to say that as women. We think the food is what we need, what we need. And so it’s almost giving us that sense of of attachment and belonging that we’re craving. But it can only come from, I know I need to watch selling Sunset or selling the Hamptons at 7:30 and not make any decisions. Or Jenny being like, I love a library and I am going to the library.

Ali Shapiro [00:52:15]:
But I mean that and so then it starts to be like, oh, I can actually enjoy the whole experience of eating something rather than because I’m getting just enough. I don’t feel horrible afterwards. It’s not affecting my sleep. All all the things that we know. So I appreciate that. Yeah. And I do want to say too, for people who might be on Zepbound, Wegovy, Manjaro, Ozempic or the earlier versions of those, this program can also help, you know, when you stop turning to food, all the emotions and the reasons that you turn to it are still there. So this can be worked in conjunction with that because you still have to retire food from the job that it’s it’s doing for you.

Ali Shapiro [00:52:53]:
So holding the and, you know, this this can still be useful. So thank you both so much for your time. Is there anything else you wanted to add or share that I that I didn’t ask you?

Ginny [00:53:05]:
The only thing that I would say is that I hope that that we didn’t come across as, you know, this is the panacea that’s gonna fix everything. And it’s so easy. You just float through the program and you come out. And I’m the greatest thing. It’s it’s not. It’s work. It’s it’s hard work. But it’s extremely, extremely rewarding work if you’re willing to put the time in and take advantage of the tools and and really, really get to the root of who you are, it’s extremely rewarding work.

Ginny [00:53:33]:
But it is work, but worth it. Worth every second.

Ali Shapiro [00:53:36]:
I’m glad you said that. Yeah. And for people listening, I I will just tell you that the work what what I loved when Ginny and Isis were like, it just makes sense. As you start to do this work, your own confidence that you can do the work increases because you’re restoring this idea that you were broken. As you start to make these connections that have been elusive for years and you see, oh, momentum to do the work because it is it is work. But hopefully, all of us at midlife understand there’s the the things that are rewarding take work, but I’m glad you said that. And you, Isis, anything that I

Isis [00:54:15]:
Just completely iterating what you both just said and shared. And I like that you brought up that folks that are that are taking the GLP one medications to help with weight loss, specifically to help with weight loss and not for other medical reasons. I am a proponent of them in how they help with prediabetes and also how they help with, like, honestly, perimenopause. That’s why I started taking it because my numbers, and she knew it was stalling because I was starting perimenopause. And so that’s how I I started it. But because I had this information, because I went through what I’ve gone through with why am I eating this now, having the weight come off was one of those moments of like, yay, whatever. And then I did have tiny little voices that would be like, the tiny voices don’t go away. I want everyone to know that.

Isis [00:55:10]:
Like, we’ve done all of this work. And, again, it can still be true that I I am always gonna have demons that I’ve had to make friends with because, that’s part of my DNA now. And as opposed to, like, hating them and thinking I can make them go away or, you know, whatever mythical opposite of a demon you wanna believe in. My angels are gonna stomp out my demons like, no. No. No. We’re all big one dysfunctional family in my head and my heart. And this program really helped me become at ease with that and love that because I had to love those damn demons that ruined my life for decades.

Isis [00:55:54]:
I had to love them and realize they were actually that weird form of protection that you talk about. Like, we think about self sabotage, but it’s actually self protection. And that was absolutely a game changer for me, was recognizing I was actively protecting myself. I wasn’t sabotaging myself. That language totally reversed the self hating as well. So I also wanna mention that whole deprivation thing. I think one of the areas when you come into this thinking about weight loss and coming with that mentality and maybe still having a slightly immature mindset about these things, you may still think that if I do these things, then this will fix that and this will fix these other things. And it’s like, it’s so much more nuanced, and it’s so much less about, like, about things like depriving yourself of of rewards or giving yourself a reward because you deprived yourself of something else.

Isis [00:56:55]:
It’s so different than anything out else out there that the culture is is selling us. And that and that’s like it’s hard to put it into words, which is why I’m kind of failing right now and stumbling because I’m thinking to myself, like, I wish people could hear the message without having to use the language that we have, but I don’t know any other language than than what we’ve got.

Ali Shapiro [00:57:18]:
It makes me think of I was listening to this interview with this woman, Amanda Montel. She’s like a linguistics professor, and she was saying, it’s so interesting in our capitalistic culture that anytime we have a problem, we immediately think like, what can I buy? What can I add to this? And, you know, she was using the example of like, if I’m in a relationship and I’m like, oh, we’re fighting. The thought is like, what vacation can we go on to make this better instead of, you know, stripping to what’s essential? And I think that this process is like that. Rather than thinking you have to go buy a sauna or you have to go buy 10 supplements that are gonna, quote unquote, fix the issue or optimize. Everyone’s trying to optimize when we’re not even doing the foundational thing. It’s it’s stripping away of, like, let’s get to what is this and why is it self protective and makes sense. And I think what you made me think of, Isis, is like how just that language and really understanding that for yourself can unburden years of shame. And we can’t change when we’re in shame.

Ali Shapiro [00:58:18]:
We just feel too fragile. We feel too scared of doing it wrong, too scared of not being right. So thank you for reiterating that. Well, thank you both so much. I adore both of you. I appreciate your time and this is really gonna help people and get people who are ready, I think, hopefully, to see if this is this is the time for them. So thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you sharing both your stories.

Ali Shapiro [00:58:41]:
And I always say, like, once I meet my clients, I just, like, fall in love with your stories. So I can’t wait to hear where they go next.

Isis [00:58:49]:
Cool. Thanks so much for having me.

Ginny [00:58:51]:
Thanks, Ali. It’s it’s so good to see you, and thank you for including me.

Ali Shapiro [00:58:55]:
Of course. Of course. I am sure you got a lot out of today’s episode. And if you think Isis and Ginny are great, and you wanna work through your emotional eating in a community with like minded women like them, come consider why am I eating this now? Again, I run it once a year live. It’s 12 weeks. It will change your relationship with food, with yourself. So you can actually trust. You don’t need more people telling you what to do.

Ali Shapiro [00:59:30]:
That you can actually, with the right self awareness, trust yourself. Okay? And if you want a free sample and really experience what it’s like to be in community with people who are working on these issues in a way that isn’t just like, hey, just ignore them. You’re beautiful no matter what. Yes. Great. And you may still be in pain around your food. Okay? But you also don’t wanna do a diet culture about all this restriction and control and perfectionism. That’s not what this is about either.

Ali Shapiro [01:00:02]:
But don’t believe me, really come see for yourself in tomorrow’s free masterclass, September 10th, Tuesday, from 12 to 1:15 Eastern Standard Time. Okay? And you can sign up in the show notes. And if you are listening to this after the free masterclass happened already, know that you can catch a replay of it on the why am I eating this now program page, which is also linked in the show notes. And that will be available through Monday, September 16th, and then it goes away. So check it out. And for those of you who feel called and this feels like this all makes so much sense, like we talked about in episode 282. And, you know, 3 months from now, when I have a dramatically different relationship with food, including not feeling like you have to gear up every Monday or every Sunday for a new week of controlling your food, come join us. It’s a good, good nourishing time.

Ali Shapiro [01:01:00]:
Thanks for listening. See you in our next episode.