Why Am I Eating This Now? is open for registration!
Today I’m resharing a great conversation — and a powerful “Where are they now?” update — with two past Why Am I Eating This Now?: The Courage for Consistency participants who tell their powerful stories of going from “failing” at every program they tried to address the root issues of why they were falling off track with food.
Tune in to hear Ginny and Isis talk about the diets they’ve been on, the health concerns they’re navigating, and how our work together transformed their eating habits, including food no longer being their go-to.
We discuss:
- Our unique health priorities & how they relate to what we eat
- The many ways popular diets shame & isolate us
- Why Ginny & Isis decided to join Why Am I Eating This Now?
- How to know you’re ready to invest in yourself
- Support for pulling yourself out of feeling powerless
- The importance of having a flexible path (not a rigid rulebook)
⭐️ Ready to catch yourself before you fall off track? RSVP for my free workshop on September 3rd.
Connect with Ali & Insatiable:
Transcript
Ali Shapiro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Insatiable, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of food, psychology and culture.
Isis [00:00:08]:
The problem that most of us see is what we’re sold in society and what they want to make money off of. And I don’t mean this in like a malicious intent, but it doesn’t think about me as a person. It thinks of me as a consumer. So I’ll buy Jenny Craig, I’ll buy Weight Watchers because I see these results. But what they’re not selling is what does that person look like now? What’s their cholesterol? Do they walk their dogs three times a day? Do they even have the energy with the dietary restrictions we’re putting them on? No, they don’t talk about that. We just see pants size and we’re sold this thong of like, that’s all that matters.
Ali Shapiro [00:00:48]:
I’m your host, Ali Shapiro, an integrated health coach, 32 year and counting cancer survivor, and have radically healed my relationship with food and my body. And for the past 17 years, I’ve been working with clients individually in group programs and in company settings to do the same. Welcome. The information in this podcast should not be considered personal, individual or medical advice. We are re airing Ginny and Isis’s episode from last year because why I’m Eating this Now live is open for registration through September 10th. So if you are starting to feel those back to school vibes. Vibes I know sometimes I feel the more in September when the weather cools and really want to make this your year where you address the roots of your food battle and have more consistency. The program is an open invitation for you.
Ali Shapiro [00:01:46]:
There is a free masterclass. Well, it’s actually going to be a workshop on Wednesday, September 3rd. And the difference is there’s going to be a lot of Q and A and coaching, but I will be talking about the. The four triggers that cause us to fall off track and how you can catch yourself before when you know them. And I’m doing this new intro because when we talked to Ginny and Isis, Ginny had been out of the program for a year and Isis, I think a couple of years, it was around Covid when, when ISIS was there. But Ginny, who you know, is obviously a client of mine, sends me periodic emails with updates. And so she sent me an update a couple months ago and gave me permission to share with you where she is now two years out of why am I eating this now? Okay. And I am a big believer that food is not the problem.
Ali Shapiro [00:02:35]:
It’s a portal into your deeper hungers. And you can hear that and it might resonate, but it’s like what does that really look like in real life? So I want to share with you what Jenny emailed to me. Two years out of taking why am I eating this now? So she emailed me, she said I want to give you a few updates on where I am in my life because I can pretty much trace all of this back to the work I did with you. And full disclosure, Ginny did go on to truce with food and if you take why I’m eating this now and want to continue on, you get to credit what you paid towards why I’m eating this now towards truths with food. So we did work together longer than why I’m in this now and she got started in why I’m writing this now. So here’s where she is. Two years out. I still work my full time job.
Ali Shapiro [00:03:20]:
Nothing has changed as far as that’s concerned. But the big change is I’ve taken control of my free time and by extension my life. I joined the flower gilded church in our local museum, I’m taking on more responsibility in the choir I sing with and I’ve taken a part time job. I have a friend who manages two fabric and interior design stores in the area. Because I’ve really gotten comfortable with what I’m capable of and understanding my commitments and limits, I reached out to him and asked for a job. I now work every week playing with beautiful fabrics and redoing the entire design of one our 15,000 square foot stores. It is a dream. I’ve also been able to identify and act on a friendship that has been toxic and draining for years.
Ali Shapiro [00:04:00]:
I found the strength to put my foot down with her and walk away for a cooldown while I determine if this relationship is worth the anxiety it creates. These are honestly things I would have never conceived of two years ago. I wouldn’t have even seen where a part time job would have been possible. I wouldn’t have dreamed that I’d have the courage to tell my friend to back off. I’m stronger, more self reliant and infinitely happier because of your work. It was really our work together. It’s a powerful framework but you have to be willing to look within. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me to learn who I am and be really proud of her.
Ali Shapiro [00:04:37]:
I just get chills. So I read this and I cried because I love when women realize who they really are and they step into what we call the self alpha authored belonging where you think of your needs and then you find the places and people who want that version of you where you are continually more and more self expressed. Right? That is the most expansive definition of health. Am I alive? Am I expressing myself? So I slept on this and I thought, okay, but if I share this, people are going to want to know, okay, that’s all well and good, but like, I’m coming here to like stop battling food and be more consistent with my food. So I said to Ginny, like, hey, can I chat with you on the phone? Like, what about the food? And she was like the second person I chatted with on the phone in five years. So I said, give us a food update. And she said, well, all the food noise, all of it’s gone. Okay? All of the, oh my God, it’s 3:00pm I need a snack.
Ali Shapiro [00:05:32]:
But should I have a snack? Shouldn’t I have a snack? Oh my God. In social situations, she doesn’t have the food noise of, oh, should I just go with the flow? What are people going to think of, should I be eating this? Should I not? And again, all of that is driven by do I feel safe? And do I have to connect with these people by being the same or a certain way? Right? So if you’re someone who’s like, you know, I just, I have this food noise. Even though, like I’ve made physical peace with food, I just want to eat intuitively. This is what we do and why I’m eating this now. But I digress. She said she’s feeling so much better physically. She said she feels better in her skin, right? And who she is. And she said, you know, like right now I actually have Kind bar for lunch day because I’m in a, a busy period.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:12]:
It’s not a proper lunch. I get that. But she’s like, I have no guilt about it because I understand that this is where I am in my life. Right? In episode 300, I talked about learning how to pivot versus perfection. This is that flexibility that I’m talking about. She’s like, I just don’t see food as good or bad anymore. I just eat. And she’s like, I didn’t beat myself up.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:33]:
So, like, you don’t overeat if you’re actually satisfied from the junky food and you don’t feel guilty or shame about it, right? And I said, oh my God, Jenny, your goal was to want to eat healthy, meaning she wanted to attune to herself and just naturally want to make the healthy choice. Not because I said it or there was some plan, but because she wanted to tap into her body’s innate desire to be healthy. And I was like, jenny, that was your goal. And she’s like, oh my God, I did meet my goals. Like, she even forgot that was the goal. Cause it’s just natural to her. And so I said, do you think you do that about 80% of the time or more? And she’s like, yes. Like, want to.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:11]:
Want to eat healthy. And she’s like, 80%, definitely. And she said the other thing that’s been really revolutionary is that in social situations, she doesn’t overeat or feel the need to over drink or drink at all anymore. And so this is amazing to her. And she realized that both of those things, overeating and alcohol, she felt she had to keep the conversation going. And so offering people more wine, drinking more wine so she could talk more, all this stuff came down to not belonging to herself, essentially. And so when she realized that, she was like, oh, my God, this has been revolutionary because again, neither of these required white knuckling. So that’s where she is now.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:51]:
And this is the type of work we do. And why am I doing this now? Getting in touch with your needs, understanding why it feels hard to have needs, and really getting rid of the conditioning that makes you think you have to worry about everybody else and not yourself. And of course you can do both, but when does that actually make sense and not so? If that is interesting to you and you want not just sustainable results, but exponential results. And I have to put a little plug in here for this work, because everyone who is in the fitness and health industry, meaning nutritionists, trainers, they will tell you that sustainability is the exception, not the rule. Right? We all sit out here and beat ourselves up for, like, not being able to sustain results when that is the exception. It is not you that needs to be fixed. It is your approach. So if you don’t want just sustainable results, but exponential results, you can’t even imagine now, you don’t have to have a vision board.
Ali Shapiro [00:08:45]:
You don’t have to know your why all these traditional things. Those are great. If you do, I welcome them. And I’m going to give you the other half of the equation that actually gets you where you want to go. All right? If you’re interested, especially after hearing this conversation. And again, you’ll hear Ginny, one year out. But what I just told you is two years out. Come join me at the free catch yourself before you fall off track masterclass.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:07]:
I will put a link to that in the show notes as well. As if you’re ready to go now and you want some early bird registration where you can save a hundred bucks. I’ll put that link in the show notes as well. Enjoy today’s episode. So, Ginny and Isis, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Ginny [00:09:27]:
Thank you.
Isis [00:09:28]:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:30]:
So let’s set the stage for listeners because I know each of your backstories. Not all of them, obviously, the whole thing, but listeners don’t. And just for context, Isis, you took why I’m writing this now, was it three years ago?
Isis [00:09:43]:
Yeah, 2021.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:45]:
And Ginny just took it in 2023. So it’ll be great because the more time you have out, the different insights and progress. So, Ginny, where were you before you signed up for why I’m eating this now? Last year at this time, in terms of your food struggles, I was in.
Ginny [00:10:03]:
The why don’t I have any willpower loop and everybody else can do this. Why can’t I do this? And look how effective it is for so and so and. And this person, you know, did Weight Watchers and looks great. What is my problem? Why can’t I stick with this? And I specifically came across your podcast because I googled sugar addiction or something to that effect and listened to your an episode on that, and it was so revelatory. And I’m like, wait a minute, so you’re saying that willpower maybe isn’t a thing? It’s not like the end all be all. I’m not broken. Wait, wait, what are you talking about here? So I did a little research on my own and just kind of looked into you, and everything that you said and presented on. On your website, et cetera, just made so much sense.
Ginny [00:10:53]:
So I was in this. I was definitely caught in a. Really beating myself up, really frustrated with nothing is working, and why can’t I stick with this?
Ali Shapiro [00:11:03]:
Oh, my God. You know, I’ve been there for 18 years. It was like, it’s me. I’m the problem. I love that. I’m always like, for marketing purposes, I’m always asking people like, how did you find me? And they’re like, I was down some rabbit hole. And I was like, that’s my marketing plan. Be down rabbit hole working.
Isis [00:11:23]:
Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:11:25]:
Isis, what about you? Where were you in terms of your food journey and struggles when you came to? Why am I doing this now?
Isis [00:11:32]:
Well, it was after the pandemic, right? So it was a really interesting time, brief history. I was diagnosed with, like, three different eating disorders when I was 25, so I’d been in recovery, but it had become an issue with, like, managing all of my numbers. So cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides. I’m pre diabetic, so I was really worried about A1C levels and cholesterol. So I think I’ve said that twice. But. So I was struggling with food insecurity. I lost my job in 2020.
Isis [00:12:09]:
I have two kids. I’m a single mom. And so I was starving myself for several months until I got employment. And I was just making sure my kids were covered with very healthy, nutritious meals. I was maybe eating once a day, so when. But I was also working out. So there was this level of depletion that I wasn’t monitoring in myself. And then when the end of 2020 came along and I was employed, I was over eating.
Isis [00:12:39]:
I had that. The starvation response of like, okay, now I can eat all of that. And then I couldn’t stop. Like, it was that feeling of like, okay, I have diagnosed binge eating disorder. So here it comes. And it was that sense of having been through several years, decades now of different forms of therapy. I knew that I wasn’t interested in the diet culture, but I knew there was. I needed help.
Isis [00:13:05]:
And I have a difficult time asking for help. And I work 100% remote, so I’m all about, like, I’m good in my bubble, but I’m not. So it was a. It was a Google search of the word insatiable, because that’s genuinely how I felt. I felt insatiable. I felt like I couldn’t satisfy. Whether it was salt, whether it was sweet, whether it was protein, whether it was carbs, I just would just, like, eat. And the thing is, like, I didn’t necessarily, because I love exercise.
Isis [00:13:35]:
I live in Colorado, if everybody knows we are. I hike every weekend in the Rocky Mountains. So health is a huge, really important to me. So when I’m not eating healthy, my autoimmune disease goes bananas and I can’t work out, and then it becomes that downward spiral of depression. So finding insatiable. Listening to your podcast, and these were your early podcasts, right? Lots of giggling, lots of. I love that for you. But I really.
Isis [00:14:06]:
It resonated with me because I was like, this is my person. So I started listening to you, and then I. Because of your talking about your why am I eating this now? Is coming up, I was like, I just reached out and said, I think I want to do this. Having again, been through therapy, I knew it was different for me in that I wanted to learn what’s going on up here. I wanted to stop the blame game. And I felt like this was a chance to be curious and mindful and unintentional. And, yeah, that’s why that’s where I was.
Ali Shapiro [00:14:45]:
I had no idea of the full extent isis. I think that’s something that doesn’t get talked about enough. Right. To Jenny’s point, this is about willpower. This is about something so much more complex. And you had a past, right. Of like, oh, here it comes. And, and, and here’s what I’m bracing for.
Ali Shapiro [00:15:03]:
And I love. What I think both of you are saying is, like, I know the existing solutions, like, aren’t enough, but I don’t know what else is, in a way. Right, Right.
Isis [00:15:13]:
It’s that helplessness of, like, I’ve tried everything. And I think the problem and, and this is a bigger issue, but the problem that most of us see is what we’re sold in society and, and what they want to make money off of. And I don’t mean this in, like, a malicious intent, but it doesn’t think about me as a. As a person. It thinks of me as a consumer. So I’ll buy Jenny Craig. I’ll buy Weight Watchers. I’ll buy because I see these results.
Isis [00:15:41]:
But what they’re not selling is what does that person look like now? What’s their cholesterol? How are they hiking every weekend? Do they walk their dogs three times a day? Are they able to. Do they even have the energy with the dietary restrictions we’re putting them on? No, they don’t talk about that. We just see pant size and we’re sold this. This song of, like, that’s all that matters. And so it’s hard, especially I think, those of us who are a few decades on this planet, to hear the other story, which is, no, it’s really important that I feel good and I can hike and I can walk with my kids. And that’s actually more beautiful than fitting into a size that I have an arbitrary number that tells me I’ll look good.
Ginny [00:16:27]:
It’s more than just knowing that there are alternatives out there. It’s almost like a totally different language. Like, diet culture wasn’t something that I was familiar with before. I join this group. Having an option c. Black and white thinking. None of this gets told to you when you’re looking at Weight Watchers and it’s, oh, it’s so easy. Just count your points and you’re going to lose weight.
Ginny [00:16:51]:
It’s it’s not. That’s not what it’s about. That’s. If. If that. If it was that easy, then everybody would be walking around as a size four, and, you know, we’re not.
Isis [00:16:59]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:17:00]:
And Weight Watchers would be out of business, so.
Ginny [00:17:05]:
Except for they’re so delicious and nutritious snacks.
Ali Shapiro [00:17:09]:
Oh, I can still. I. It’s funny. Carlos is often asking if my sister and I had the same childhood, because she’s an attorney. She remembers every detail. And I’m like, I just remember the general sense of things, but I remember going to Weight Watchers and thinking those, like, bars they had that were, like, two points. I mean, they tasted like chemicals, but I was like, but they have chocolate, but they have. This is.
Isis [00:17:34]:
This. I deserve this. Right? This is the best I can do because I can’t handle anything else. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:17:43]:
Yeah. And I. You know, Jenny, I love that you talk about, like, having the language for diet culture, and then Isis you talking about, well, if you’re aware of diet culture, now, the other end is like, well, there’s health at every size. And I, to be truthful, I haven’t read that book. I don’t know a lot about it. And I also know that especially as I’ve aged and just came off of, you know, gaining 30 pounds through menopause and postpartum and then losing it and being like. From my own personal story, being like, what really is healthy? Cause, again, my cholesterol went up. My A1C has creeped up by 4 points every year since I’ve been in menopause.
Ali Shapiro [00:18:18]:
When I started really looking at it, I’m like, it’s so important to get out of this narrative that weight is about willpower, because then it becomes about shame and blame instead of, where is the line of health? And it’s gonna be different for each person. But there is an even. The middle way is, like, where can we actually, like, wrestle with food does contribute to your health. Right? Like, it. It does. And to say, then, like, we shouldn’t pay attention to this. It’s. It’s just going to the other extreme.
Ali Shapiro [00:18:48]:
And that’s not helpful either, because then you don’t feel, to your point isis, like you can get up and hike or. Jenny, I know we’ve talked about sleep. Like, it’s, you know, sleep. So I think. And we’re in a culture that is so extreme that it’s hard to have these conversations. So I appreciate you both sharing that. So we kind of touched upon it. But, isis, we’ll Start with you this time.
Ali Shapiro [00:19:10]:
What have you, what had you tried in the past and had you taken any other courses?
Isis [00:19:16]:
Great question. I have tried, oh my gosh, Keto Atkins, Weight Watchers if I can. When I was 12, my mother entered me into Weight Watchers. I was five foot three, a hundred pounds. So I was definitely in a, in a household of, of very disordered eating. And it was just my mother and I, so my brothers were able to be six foot tall, 200 plus pounds and. But fortunately it didn’t work and did cause me to have decades of, of disordered eating. But I never went back to Weight Watchers.
Isis [00:19:53]:
But I, I’ve tried almost every single delivery meal program too. Even like the ones that are just to make life easy because then my brain is tricked into think, oh, it’s portion control. So before I joined with, with you, I, I definitely tried just about everything. And, and I came at it too from portion control and making sure I get my, like they call them macros, right, Getting all of my protein and because of my health issues and then making sure I’m full because that satiety that we need to focus on is so important for those of us who love to binge. And then we eat things that are so binge worthy, like a bag of Frito lay’s potato chips. What other courses did I try? To be honest, I don’t, I hadn’t tried other courses. I was in like intense eating disorder therapy. So that was like, that actually was a great.
Isis [00:20:53]:
And I was in like Overeaters Anonymous group therapy for a few years in my 20s. Those were great opportunities for me to learn like how to talk and how to share such trauma and stuff like that around life and why it created these issues for me. But no, I think because of diet culture, because of society, because of self blame, shame and guilt. I never saw this bridge that you provided until I saw the bridge that you provided. So it was like the, the, the trail cleared open and I saw the bridge into this whole other language that I could use and, and would help me heal.
Ali Shapiro [00:21:38]:
And don’t like when you were saying about keto. Cause I know a lot of people, especially when they get into menopause, they. Keto is like sold as like banish the menopause.
Isis [00:21:46]:
Oh, and I’m perimenopausal, so.
Ali Shapiro [00:21:49]:
So you’ll, you’ll get. Okay, wait till your feed, wait till you start clicking on one protein post. Next thing you know, it’s like, you’ll see. But I think like, what’s so seductive about those is. Didn’t you get probably results at first?
Isis [00:22:03]:
Oh, yeah, right away. Well, and it also sings that song of, you’re gonna get this detoxification headache at first and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just get past it. Because that’s the fog and the sugar. And it’s like my brain requires glucose to function rationally. So that’s what’s happening is I’m starving my brain of its main fuel, and you’re selling me this idea that fat or protein will become what I need it to become. But I’m not getting this from my, you know, degreed nutritionist who’s like, that’s bullshit. Stop doing that.
Isis [00:22:39]:
Do this in moderation and I’ll work with you. But, yeah, I did. And that. That was the thing too. The Atkins I lost. I lost 30 pounds in three months. I’m not exaggerating. Did it all come back, plus more in six months later? Yeah.
Isis [00:22:55]:
Yeah. And then my cholesterol was 205, right? So. And then I. I wasn’t walking. I felt like shit. I wasn’t sleeping right. And I think I was still 30 something when I did that. And I was.
Isis [00:23:06]:
I didn’t have kids yet. I didn’t have daughters. I wasn’t a role model for anybody but myself. And so I was still in that mindset of, like, gotta be a size blah, blah, blah, in order to be blah, blah, blah for all of these imaginary people in my head.
Ali Shapiro [00:23:22]:
You make me think, too, about the cost of these. Like, not just the financial cost and the shame and blame, but to your point, the quality of life. That then when you don’t look holistically at, you know, you keep using the example of hiking. Right. Or I think about, like, when I. My going through menopause and my food needs changed, and I didn’t know that yet, but just the insomnia of, you know, and the exhaustion and how that, like, totally made me depressed and, like, felt like ruined my life. So I think that’s really important for listeners because sometimes it’s just like, eye on the prize, I own the prize. And yet is this actually creating worse habits that are then gonna backfire in two to three months? Especially once.
Ali Shapiro [00:24:02]:
Such a decrease of nutrition and calories, which. Those aren’t always the same. Come to the. What is it? The roost comes home to the chickens.
Isis [00:24:12]:
Come home in a roost.
Ginny [00:24:13]:
Yes.
Isis [00:24:14]:
Yes.
Ali Shapiro [00:24:14]:
I don’t even know what that means, but I get the sentiment.
Isis [00:24:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest hurdle for those of us to get over is recognizing There isn’t just one number, the scale. There really isn’t because I’m at a weight now where my BMI is like almost 30, but I lift. I’m a power lifter, right? Like, I’m at the gym four to five days a week and I, I do elevation gains of a thousand feet when I hike the Rockies like I am, and I’m going to be 50. And it’s like I, I’m determined to not give a shit about the scale and to really focus with my PCP on cholesterol, A1C, blood pressure, triglycerides, and all of those other numbers that, like, if they start creeping up, she can, she can talk to me. I am on medication to, you know, make sure that specifically for my autoimmune disease. But it’s like if I eat the wrong thing now at my age, too, I have to call my best friend and say, I can’t go for a hike with you because I’m going to be sick for two days.
Isis [00:25:31]:
You know, I screwed up just because of one stupid ass thing. So I have to be a little more vigil. And, and as a result, I’m like, it’s not worth it. It’s just not worth it for me. The vistas and the ability to see what I see and just to have cake one night and then I know it’s going to screw up my gut for 24 to 36 hours. It’s like, I weigh those odds now so much more than when I was younger and I was just like so much more impulsive. That’s the biggest difference is there’s, there’s more impulse and intention behind my actions and my food.
Ali Shapiro [00:26:11]:
Yeah, well, and I think what you’re also describing is you’re thinking of how will this better care for me rather than. Is this about weight loss and shame and blame?
Isis [00:26:21]:
Yeah, that’s really where I started. That point was, my whole point to get to was it’s not about the weight. It’s about like, can I bench press, you know, £200 tomorrow or am I going to screw that up? Am I still going to be able to squat 350, by the way, I can squat 350. That’s amazing. I know I have to eat the right amount of protein to do that. If I don’t, I’m weak. I could screw up my bones, I could injure my back. So it’s so much more different my relationship with my body now than five years ago.
Ali Shapiro [00:26:55]:
Love that. Jenny, what about you? Like, what had you tried in the past.
Ginny [00:27:01]:
So I was a really skinny kid. I was a skinny kid. I was skinny through high school. I was skinny through college. So I ate anything I wanted to. I just didn’t put on weight. I was lucky, you know, I had those genes. And then I hit about 30 and the brakes started pumping and the weight started coming on and then coming on, and then it wasn’t coming off and I was in.
Ginny [00:27:25]:
All I knew was, oh, we’re gonna have pizza tonight. Okay, great. Get me. Get me one so I can have, you know, four or five pieces. So when the weight started creeping on and it wasn’t magically sliding off, I started with Body for Life. I believe a group of us did Body for Life at. At work, which is a healthier program than. Than most.
Ginny [00:27:48]:
And I felt good doing it. But, you know, it’s a. It’s a very strict eat this, don’t eat that, work out this way, don’t work out that way. And, you know, it fell apart. Weight Watchers. What’s the. What’s this? Noom. Noom.
Ginny [00:28:03]:
Zoom. Noom.
Isis [00:28:04]:
Oh, no. Oh, shoot. I forgot. I tried noom. Yeah, I did try Noom. Totally triggered my eating disorder. I could see why.
Ginny [00:28:12]:
And again, it just makes you feel so, so inadequate. So I ran the gamut and nothing stuck. Nothing worked. I felt. I was like I was broken. You know, it. I was doing it wrong. Weight Watchers at first was awesome.
Ginny [00:28:29]:
I dropped couple pant sizes, felt terrific, and now it’s like 16 pant sizes bigger. So, yeah, if it was out there, I tried it. I did draw the line. I haven’t done. I haven’t done any intermittent fasting. That’s not one that I ever did. And I haven’t done any mail order food things. But as you know, Allie, I’m the world’s weirdest eater, so I wouldn’t.
Ginny [00:28:54]:
It would be wasted money. So I didn’t try that. But pretty much everything else.
Ali Shapiro [00:28:59]:
I’m curious because I know NOOM is like, from a professional standpoint, it’s cognitive behavioral therapy, which I think, again, isn’t really addressing the root issue. But what did you find difficult about Noomjinni of, like, why it made you feel inadequate?
Ginny [00:29:14]:
The structure is you get like a lesson per day or every other day, and you sort of apply that to your eating habits or your. Well, no, it’s all. It’s exclusively eating habits. It doesn’t address anything beyond. It doesn’t address sleep or well being or anything. And it’s the concepts. The concepts aren’t difficult. But if you don’t completely follow what they’re trying to feed you, it’s very frustrating.
Ginny [00:29:46]:
So their big thing is, would you rather have a handful of grapes or three potato chips? I can’t remember the exact amount. It comes right down to. It comes down to that. At the end of the day, it’s, this has this many calories. This has this many calories. So you choose which you’d rather eat. And while I’m like, well, I’d rather eat the potato chips. So yet again, another thing where it’s like, well, grab.
Ginny [00:30:09]:
I’ve just eaten a whole bag of Dana chips. I didn’t mean to do that, but they said I could eat some. So it was very much. The program is very much, here’s what we’re telling you to do, and this is how you will succeed. And if you don’t do it the way we’re telling you, you’re doing it wrong. And that’s kind of been the bottom line with everything. And in my case, I took it to heart. I’m like, well, yeah, obviously I am wrong.
Ginny [00:30:31]:
And it’s frustrating and it’s debilitatingly depressing. And they don’t understand the whole person and they don’t want to. I mean, you know, it’s. How do you make money if you’re investing that much time and energy in a single person? I don’t know, Allie. How knew you because you seem to manage to do it. You’re magic.
Ali Shapiro [00:30:51]:
Well, you’re making me think about how so many of us and Ginny, you didn’t even have trouble with it growing up. Not to diminish it by any means, but like, this was to you in your 30s. But I’m thinking about ISIS and I Weight Watchers 11 and 12 and how every time you try something, like, the shame is just waiting to be like, yeah, you’re wrong.
Isis [00:31:12]:
You know, and it’s like, they did that. They did a marker color system. Remember, it’s like green and red. And there was like this scale between green and red. And if you ate a red food, you had to like, this is back when I did. It was years ago. So they may have updated it, but the red foods were like calorie dense food. So they didn’t want to say, nothing’s bad.
Isis [00:31:35]:
They kept saying, we’re not emphasizing bad or good. Food is food. And it’s like, okay, I hear that logic. You’re saying, new popular anti diet culture language, but you’re making me grade my food like a preschooler and I’m losing the battle. I’ve hit my calorie count. Bite 10am.
Ali Shapiro [00:32:02]:
And you’re bringing all that old baggage again. It’s. It’s unconscious, but it’s like, I’m wrong again. I’m wrong again. And I, I’m thinking about isis, how you say, like, I don’t like to ask for help. And that’s. That’s something that. The last three years, like, reclaiming that dependent part of me that.
Ali Shapiro [00:32:18]:
That needs other people. And thinking about how when you have so much shame, you just isolate further and then you come up with all the reasons not to get help or be in a group or talk about this stuff, and then it just continues. And then you’re there, you know, trying noom and. Or the next thing, and it’s like, what’s the current buzzwords? And then let’s try to put what, like lipstick on a pig is like the. I’m coming up with all these old school sayings.
Ginny [00:32:47]:
I mean, you don’t want to share with your friends. Oh, yeah, well, Weight Watchers didn’t work, so I’m trying new. Well, Noom didn’t work, so I’m going to. Because that’s, you know, because. So, so you do isolate yourself because you’re like, well, I failed at all these other things. I don’t want them to see me fail at this thing too. So you don’t share with anybody. So you’re in this little bubble by yourself.
Ginny [00:33:04]:
And in my case, the little rev, the little hamster in my brain is, you’re wrong. You’re wrong. You’re failing. You’re not doing this. You’re not. You’re that. And I don’t have anywhere, you know, there’s no one I can share this with. It was.
Ginny [00:33:14]:
It’s awful.
Ali Shapiro [00:33:15]:
It is. It really is. Well, and so I like that you both talked about, like, the language once. You took why I’m eating this now and all this stuff. So did you have any hesitations about signing up? Because this could be categorized as another thing. Even though I say it’s not about the food, we’re getting to the root. I think that language is being used more and more now. It wasn’t when I first started out, but was there hesitation? Because this is such a different concept that food is about safety and belonging to.
Ali Shapiro [00:33:46]:
Did you have any doubts before signing up? And we’ll. We’ll start with you, Jenny?
Ginny [00:33:51]:
I did not at all. Everything that you said made sense and was very intellectually challenging. It’s like Wait, what? Huh? So I can explore this in this context. I can learn about myself. I don’t have to be. You know, weight isn’t the only measure of how healthy I am. Weight, wow, Interesting. So I had no hesitations in large measure, because I think I was so.
Isis [00:34:19]:
Starved for.
Ginny [00:34:23]:
A program that was more than just do it my way or the highway. And what you offered was a very symbiotic, meet me halfway. Here’s what I want to teach you. Here’s how you can learn. And it’s not just a here’s what I know. There’s research that backs this up. There’s logic that backs this up. There’s a whole history, there’s education and all of that.
Ginny [00:34:51]:
And it made so much sense and continues to make sense. And, I mean, I can say without any question, I think it’s possibly one of the most powerful things. And, you know, don’t tell my husband, who, of course, will never listen to this episode. You know, marrying him was the greatest thing I ever did. But your program.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:11]:
I didn’t know where this was going.
Isis [00:35:15]:
Tell my husband.
Ginny [00:35:15]:
But no, I feel comfortable with you guys already. No, but your program has given me a strength and really a conduit to myself that is incredibly nourishing and enlightening, and every day it’s something new. I tell you, I was thinking earlier, it’s. It’s like, I’ve got the Ginny manual, and sometimes like, oh, cool. Yeah, I get it. Okay. Step four, step five. Sure.
Ginny [00:35:44]:
And sometimes it’s those weirdos who put together the ikea, you know, instructions, like, what is this? I don’t have that part. What are you talking about? But it’s wonderful that the why am I eating this now? Kind of gave me the introduction kind of to myself.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:57]:
I love that you say that, because that’s kind of the big reveal is that this isn’t a battle with food. It’s a battle with yourself and your needs. Isis, what about you? Did you have any hesitations? Especially, I mean, you know, I didn’t, like, know that you were, like, starving yourself and all that stuff. So, I mean, obviously the price and investment. And is this going to be another thing that says it’s different but isn’t, or, like, how did you finally decide to take the leap?
Isis [00:36:22]:
Truly, financial constraints were one of my biggest. My biggest constraint period. So what I loved was I felt comfortable. I think, if I remember right, I reached out to you, Ali, and you talked to me about the early bird, and it was just like. It was that moment Of, I know it’s a buzzword, investing in myself, but now that I literally work in finance, I truly recognize and appreciate a solid, sound investment. And that was a moment of, okay, this is X amount of dollars. This is going to cover this. So I do all of the math in my head, but then I thought about where am I coming from and why am I afraid of putting this money toward that? What else is this money going to go toward? Is it going to be something? Is it like a salvation? Would, you know, I look toward this as like mental, you know, building a new foundation for myself.
Isis [00:37:24]:
Am I going to, you know, so it was answering all of those questions and then having this opportunity of like, okay, she’s providing a path for me to enable this opportunity. I’m absolutely going to take it. There was no hesitation regarding your content, regarding your credentials. I had no hesitation at all. I believed this was, it was really just a financial concern for me at that point in my life.
Ginny [00:37:54]:
We met one on one before I did the why am I eating this now? And you were like Svengali with figuring things out. Just, I mean, we were on the phone for 60 minutes and it’s like, was she like hiding in the guest room of my parents house when I was growing up? How did she get, how did she figure all this out? It’s crazy. So after that and just you’re getting right to the root in 60 minutes, I’m like, daggone, she’s good. Okay, sign me up.
Ali Shapiro [00:38:21]:
Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. And I, and I appreciate both of you sharing your thought processes because most of my clients are discerning. Right. It’s not like a lot of people in my space market on fear and scarcity. And I don’t want to do that because you can’t be in a, oh my God, this has to work tomorrow. Space to do this work. And so I just, I think that’ll really resonate with people who are considering it, that it’s like, oh, it’s discerning people.
Ali Shapiro [00:38:45]:
It’s not just like, this is going to fix me, it’s like, it’s the path.
Ginny [00:38:50]:
No, if you’re looking for a quick fix, this is, this is not a quick fix. This is a lifetime overhaul.
Isis [00:38:55]:
Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:38:59]:
So how was this course different than other things that you’ve tried? And isis, we’ll start with you.
Isis [00:39:05]:
The difference for me was the immediate learning of self. Like, it was just like, we’re going to go right in to who you are and what makes you tick. And we’re going to learn about these, like Jenny mentioned already, you know, scientifically proven ways of thinking mentalities, trends that our brains will fall into and how, you know, the consumerism and the marketing going right into that. My feeling was so positive because I knew that is exactly what I needed. I was done being told what to do because I literally thought and, and I do believe it was when I signed up for noon that like I just want a person to be in charge of that. I’ve got too much going on, too much on my plate. It’s like I still am that person. I probably have triple the amount of on my plate today and food is not my go to.
Isis [00:40:07]:
I. All of those things are a thing of the past for me, honestly. And it’s because of the introspection. And I think, if I may, I don’t want to speak on behalf of anybody, but I do can speak on behalf of me and probably a lot of people who were like me feeling that sense of fear of doing that work. And I remember when we were working together, there were a lot of gals in the group that I could hear still wanting that fix. You know, like, I think that some of them still came with a slightly and I don’t mean this like in a rude way, but like in. In an immature mentality toward like self Lucian. And I felt like I could see them and it actually helped me balance who and where I was because then it was like, okay, they really just want to complain.
Isis [00:41:07]:
They really just want someone to hear their struggles. I’m not hearing them wanting to fix. I’m not hearing them pulling themselves out of the hole that maybe they dug or circumstances dug for them. I’m just hearing someone crying from the bottom of a hole. And so I was like, I really need to do this work so that I am not that person crying from the bottom of a hole looking up at everybody saying help me get out. It’s like, oh, I’m the one who can build that ladder and get the hell out of this hole. And those. All the work that we did helped me do that really, truly, monumentally.
Isis [00:41:43]:
That and you letting me kind of like talk to you and you know, whether it was after the meeting or even if I would expunge in the middle of a meeting of like something I was really excited about, I just, I loved it.
Ali Shapiro [00:41:54]:
Well, and you know, I’m thinking back to our shame conversation and how when we’ve been feel that we’re so wrong for so long, it’s like, how could I possibly have any Responsibility in this. I don’t trust myself. Right. And so then we feel that powerlessness at the bottom of the hole, and we have to kind of stay there for a while until we realize that, that that feeling isn’t necessarily true, that we’re wrong and that we have to stay there. That we. We do know stuff. Like, even the stuff that hasn’t worked, we know that that doesn’t work. Like, that takes a lot of work to get to that place in our culture of, like, diets don’t work.
Ali Shapiro [00:42:33]:
I mean, it took me 18 years to be like, okay, I get it, you know?
Isis [00:42:37]:
Yeah. So, yeah, and it’s.
Ginny [00:42:38]:
It’s.
Isis [00:42:39]:
It’s hard. I practice Buddhism, and one of the things that our brains do is we get hooked.
Ali Shapiro [00:42:44]:
We.
Isis [00:42:44]:
We get hooked on something and. And we don’t want to let that go. Right. Our ego is like, but, but. But this is my survival. This is my protection. And I’m talking about diet culture. And it’s like, I didn’t want to let go of the idea that I could lose 30 pounds in three months because I did it when I was 25.
Isis [00:43:02]:
I didn’t keep it off. You know, it’s that subtext. I didn’t keep it off that I want to ignore. And I want to be at 35 telling myself, no, no, no, everything’s great. I don’t want to let go of that hook of the marketing and all of the consumerism that diet culture sold me. I don’t want to let it go. So it was finally after the pandemic where I was like, holy shit. It’s really time to let that go.
Isis [00:43:31]:
I’m a mom. I’m a mature adult. This is stupid. I need to do some real work and find out how to build a ladder out of this.
Ali Shapiro [00:43:40]:
What about you, Jenny? How is this different for you?
Ginny [00:43:44]:
Well, you know, going into it, you don’t know what to expect going in. And I think one of the first things that came out of my mouth, which is saying a lot because I talk a lot, was something along the lines of, just give me homework. I’m great at homework. You give me the ABCs of it, and I will conquer it tomorrow. You tell me what to do. And yeah, that’s not what your program is at all. That’s not the game you play. So that was a big difference.
Ginny [00:44:10]:
And giving me the. Here’s how you make it work with, you know, weight Watchers and following points and noom and doing lessons obviously wasn’t working anyway. So once I was able to set aside. Oh, she’s not gonna, you know, give me the exact formula for how Ginny in Virginia is going to lose all her weight. This opportunity to, as you say, be in choice and to have option A, B and C, to be in choice, to be able to take an educated view at my options. It’s not something that’s promoted in any other program. And I think in large measure, I mean, not to bash them, but, you know, Weight Watchers didn’t get where it is by being touchy feely and helping you get to the root of your, you know, your trauma. It’s, give us your money and we’ll give you a program that if you are magic, you will succeed in or Oprah and have lots and lots and lots of money at a personal show.
Ali Shapiro [00:45:10]:
But Oprah didn’t even succeed on Weight Watchers alone. I mean, that’s the thing. It’s like Oprah talked about how she used to, like, pay her bodyguard to not let her sneak out and get food. I mean, I’m pretty sure I remember that. And she still managed to find it, you know, so.
Ginny [00:45:28]:
Well, Oprah and I, you know, as close as our bank accounts are. Yeah.
Isis [00:45:34]:
And I don’t have that luxury.
Ginny [00:45:36]:
So your program definitely puts the onus on me. And not in a bad way, in a really good way, in a very empowering way.
Ali Shapiro [00:45:43]:
I’m glad that both of you brought that up, because part of what we don’t realize is the nooms of the world, the Weight Watchers, it’s the rigidity that’s the problem. Right. But we feel like, oh, if we stick to the rigidity and it doesn’t account for real life. Did I sleep last night? Am I trying to lift? Bench press 3:25 in the gym and hike. There’s no dynamic nature to it that honors real life. So it’s like we hate the rigidity, but then we crave it if we feel like we don’t have kind of a path forward or someone. But you don’t need some. I think the differentiation is you don’t need someone else to tell you what to do, but you do need a structure or a path to figure out what you do need to do.
Ali Shapiro [00:46:25]:
And. But it has flexibility. Because I like that you talked about being in choice, Ginny. Because when we meet our needs, the reason we focus on needs and why I’m writing this now is because there’s a lot of choices. Right. So if I need rest, maybe I can’t sleep, you know, however, maybe it’s taking A walk, because that’s what is accessible. So there’s flexibility, but you still have the structure of, of how to tend to yourself. So I’m glad, though, that both of you brought that up, because to me especially, and again, I know I’m some years into this developmental journey, but I remember when I wanted someone to tell me what to do.
Ali Shapiro [00:47:01]:
And now I see the freedom and not having, or maybe hearing what people’s suggestion, but having enough discernment of what works for me to say, I don’t know, it’s just saved me a lot of time and energy. But there’s a learning curve to the discernment.
Ginny [00:47:15]:
It saved me time and energy too. But I have to tell you now, I go into so many things with, with just a tiny ounce of skepticism, like, oh, really, podiatrist? The answer to my problem here is, I don’t know, let’s look at my diet first. So, yeah, I, you know.
Isis [00:47:32]:
One other point that just came up in my head while we were talking that I don’t think a lot of the marketing and the diet culture understands is while this rigidity may breed a success in a percentage of clientele, what they miss the mark on is the resentment that builds within obligations. Anytime a human is obligated to do anything, they. And moan within weeks. And, and you’re doing. You’re cheating, quote, unquote. You’re doing all of these things, things. And it’s yourself, it’s your decision, it’s your autonomy, right? And, and you’re sitting there like, cheating on your diet. It’s like you’re the only person keeping score, FYI, you know? And, and, and like, if you’re resenting what’s going on, why are you acting like you’re breaking through the jail? It’s all in your head.
Isis [00:48:32]:
It’s all in your head. So I always noticed that when I think about someone saying, oh, I have to go meet my friend this week, and I’m like, oh, it sounds like an obligation. And you sound like you resent your friend. That really sucks for you. How can you change that dynamic? You know, like, can you do something that you want to do with your friend or can you just cancel and be honest? But yeah, that, that’s something I always hear, is this resentment. And, and it’s just that idea of, like, being held within the, the confines that you asked for in diet culture.
Ali Shapiro [00:49:04]:
Yeah, that’s a good point. Well, and I think we’re so trained to think that’s the only way. Right. Right now at this Cultural moment. It’s either you do diets and that’s what works, meaning weight loss, regardless of the cost to it, or you can’t care about your weight and your health and it’s just eat whatever. And not just eat whatever, but like, let’s not focus on, again, the reality that like, your food doesn’t determine how well you sleep, your quality of life. So we’re caught in a very interesting polarization, not just politically, but because again, my work is developmental. I think it’s like, oh, it’s the socialized mind, right? It’s like how we start as adults and our job is to think more flexible.
Isis [00:49:47]:
Well, it’s almost a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Because if you think about some of our big cultural icons like Oprah or like Lizzo, when they lose weight after praising their size, they get criticized for losing weight and it’s like, well, so what? They decreased in mass, you know, so what? You know, like, like why are we weighing on this and why is it our so called right to tell this person? Like, it’s just such a bizarre reality in social media that gets emphasized when these, when these media stars do things with their body and it has this like idea that it’s an okay conversation to comment on another human body. And it’s all about, all right, I should be able to tell this person that they’re too fat. Like, who the hell am I? I’m not their doctor. It’s such a far, like I’m teaching my children that it is absolutely not okay for anyone ever to comment on your body unless it’s, it’s an actual physiotherapy situation. Like your doctor, you’re in physical therapy, it’s just not okay. And you can shut that shit down right away.
Ali Shapiro [00:51:00]:
Yeah, we’re teaching Essa about informed consent. You know, even though as a boy, if he gets it, then he will understand that women should be, you know, I mean, if he’s heteronormative or whatever the word is. But so we’re like, you know, if you don’t want Grandma Pop Pop to kiss you, or a vu and a void, like you just say my body, my choice. And so the other day I was like, I’m going to give you a kiss. And he’s like, I don’t want to kiss. My body, my choice. And I was like, okay, but it’s just so funny to hear it coming out of like a four year old’s mouth. But, but he, this is how we learn.
Ali Shapiro [00:51:32]:
Like okay, the norm is not just anyone can come up and do anything they want to you, and so then you can’t do that to anybody. You know, I. I want him to realize that. Do you not love ISIS and Ginny as much as I do? They’re struggles that so many of us can relate to. And the vulnerability to be hopeful that things could be different. Hope is such a vulnerable emotion. And that courage to look inward and the humor that is essential for any healing journey. We laugh a lot in my group programs.
Ali Shapiro [00:52:07]:
I’m so lucky I get to work with women like this. I also find it breathtaking that whether you have three eating disorder diagnoses like ISIS or like Ginny, you just started battling food in your 30s, or someone like me who had all this complexity surrounding health and weight and chronic illness at the time. And yet the common invisible thread root cause we all need to tend to is belonging to. It’s such an elegant solution to tend to this, let alone efficient, and can offer you results that just are unheard of if you don’t know to look at this belonging thread. And that’s why ISIS was like, I probably have tripled the amount of things on my plate, but food isn’t my go to. Or Ginny actually finds going to the library alone more satisfying now than ice cream. That’s the power of understanding this belonging thread and really cultivating an adult sense of belonging, of I’ve got my own back, but without understanding your true needs. We think food is the only way to secure the rest, relaxation and comfort we need.
Ali Shapiro [00:53:20]:
As you saw in their stories, it’s not about the level of stress, it’s about how resourced we feel. We can increase this sense of resourcefulness by learning what our needs are and how to meet them. That’s when we feel back in control of our life and ultimately food. And let’s be real, we can’t control everything in life, but there’s a lot that we can control so that we feel we can rise to the occasion. And so not only do we not turn to food, but we build the resourcefulness to meet those moments. And that also includes having the resourcefulness to feel joy and happiness and creativity. And then food falls away on its own, no white knuckling required. And again, my live why I’m Eating this Now group program is open for registration.
Ali Shapiro [00:54:08]:
I only run this program once a year, so if you’re interested, definitely do your research now and again. If you want a free sample of the program, come to the masterclass class. Catch yourself before you fall off track. The link is in the show notes for both the program and the free masterclass. Thank you for joining me.
Leave a Reply