Today we continue our Body Stories series with Sas Petherick!
She joined me on Insatiable last month (listen here!) to talk about her intentional weight loss journey. This week she returns so we can catch up on how things are going one month in.
Tune in as we explore public weight loss, before and after photos, psychological flexibility, how it feels to eat more calories, healing our childhood wounds around sports, and more.
And if you relate to anything in this episode, join me (Ali) for Your Emotional Eating Blueprint this spring! You can enroll or sign-up for a free sneak peek here: https://alishapiro.com/blueprint/
We discuss:
- Why we shouldn’t judge a celebrity (or anyone) who loses weight
- How it feels to be bombarded by before & after photos
- Rejecting weight loss as a “hero’s journey”
- Discipline vs devotion & the myth of consistency
- Where Sas is going for support with eating, food & workouts
- How Sas felt when her trainer suggested she eat more calories per day
- Learning about macros & how they impact satiation
- The stories we have around sports & who’s “sporty”
- What’s shifting for Sas around movement & being active
More about our guest:
Sas Petherick believes that healing our self-doubt is one of the most important contributions we can make to ourselves, our families, our work, and the world.
Sas holds a Master’s degree from Oxford, and her research on self-doubt was published in the International Journal of Coaching and Mentoring. She has developed an evidence-based, trauma-informed, ICF-accredited coaching methodology for cultivating self-belief.
For over a decade, Sas has coached with hundreds of women experiencing self-doubt in their professional and personal lives. Sas hosts the top 1% rated self-doubt podcast Courage & Spice which has enjoyed over half a million downloads. She is also an accomplished speaker and has developed coaching workshops and programmes for clients like BBC Worldwide and Pinterest. Her writing has appeared in numerous magazines.
After 25 years in the UK, Sas currently lives by the beach in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland, with her partner Ash and pooch Bohdi, imagining a post-capitalist world, exploring consciousness, and listening to obscure UFO podcasts.
Connect with Sas Petherick:
Mentioned in this episode:
- 291. How to Lose Weight AND Love Yourself (because you can do both!) with Sas Petherick
- 269. Let’s Get Triggered: Oprah, Ozempic, and Our Outrage
- Registration for Your Emotional Eating Blueprint is now open. You can enroll or sign-up for a free sneak peek here: https://alishapiro.com/blueprint/
Connect with Ali & Insatiable:
Registration for Your Emotional Eating Blueprint is now open! You can enroll for only $67 until April 30th or sign-up for a free sneak peak here: https://alishapiro.com/blueprint/
Transcript
Ali Shapiro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Insatiable, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of food, psychology, and culture.
Sas Petherick [00:00:09]:
I look back now at my month ago self, God bless her, and I think, oh but I was still restricting myself, like I still saw bread as the enemy. I was still going, oh this is a good food, this is a bad food. Whereas as I’m thinking about this in terms of macros, food becomes way more neutral for me. And now it’s just like, what are the nutritional properties of this? And then it’s a choice.
Ali Shapiro [00:00:36]:
I’m your host, Allie Shapiro, an integrated health coach, thirty two year and counting cancer survivor, and have radically healed my relationship with food and my body. And for the past seventeen years, I’ve been working with clients individually, in group programs, and in company settings to do the same. Welcome. The information in this podcast should not be considered personal, individual, or medical advice. Today, we are back with our series body stories with my dear friend and colleague, Sas Petherick. We started this series about a month ago. I’ll include in the show notes our first episode, and the feedback has been so wonderful. So I wanna thank all of you for listening.
Ali Shapiro [00:01:24]:
Let us know what you think of this episode, and I wanna continue to thank Sas for opening up about her journey. And towards the end of this episode where we get into updates, we talk about who’s really trying the hardest when it comes to health and so many realizations that SAS is having, we talk about some of the emotional stuff that gets in the way of us feeling really great in our bodies, whether we wanna lose weight or not. And I want to remind everyone that I am having a course of mine. It’s called your emotional eating blueprint. I am running it in May, so in a couple of days from when this episode first comes out. And it is for people who wanna really get to the root of why they fall off track and struggle to be consistent with food. And this program is designed for women who, you know, if you’ve been struggling with food as long as Sas and I both have, if you find yourself reaching for food when you’re stressed, exhausted, or all alone, if you’re using GLP ones, that’s Ozempic or Manjaro, etcetera, and either wanna get off these drugs eventually, or you’re experiencing increased anxiety and depression on them, which is can often be common because the reasons you turn to food haven’t been resolved, or if you notice shifts in your body and metabolism about what used to work no longer does, etcetera, etcetera. If you are willing to do the work around emotional stuff, but you wanna work on the right problem, this four week course is for you.
Ali Shapiro [00:02:56]:
We’re gonna unearth the root cause of your frustrating eating, learn how to generate sustainable motivation, and really establish a strong foundation for how to rebuild your eating habits. So I will link in the show notes to this. It’s only $97. And if you join before April 30, this episode is coming out on April 24. So you’ve got six days to join. You save $30, so it would only be $67. Check out the program for more details. And if you are unsure about if this is for you, I’m offering a free master class on the roots of falling off track on Tuesday, April 29 at 12PM Eastern Standard Time.
Ali Shapiro [00:03:38]:
And if you go to alieshapiro.com backslash blueprint, you can sign up for that free sneak peek, or you can also register there if you’re just ready to do it. But I promise you, this is something you have never heard before, and it really speaks to the holistic and strengthening approach to your relationship to your body instead of damaging your relationship to your body that Sas and I have been traversing in these conversations. So check that out. And, again, this is the only time I will be running this program live. It’ll be turned into a self study after that, and there’s gonna be a real advantage to taking it live because you’re gonna get to ask the questions you need to ask, and you’re gonna have me there to really coach you, which is incredible. So it’s just a phenomenal value for $97 or 67 if you get in on the, early bird. Alright. So, again, a little bit more about Sas, and I have been friends, oh my god, over a decade plus.
Ali Shapiro [00:04:39]:
She’s the real deal when it comes to coaching. She’s a twice certified coach, and she has a master’s degree in coaching like myself, but hers is from Oxford. Right? It sounds so much more formal. And she has worked for over a decade, and she has coached hundreds of people around self doubt and self belief. So check her out. We’ll include a a link in the show notes to her. And enjoy today’s episode as we catch up with where is SAS a month into this intentional weight loss journey. Take care.
Ali Shapiro [00:05:12]:
Oh, SAS, I have been looking so forward to this. I have gotten so much great feedback from my Same. People listener. Oh, what have people been saying?
Sas Petherick [00:05:21]:
So I’ve had lots of folks say things like, oh, this is such a nuanced conversation that seems to be the primary sort of feedback. I’ve had conversations with people about this process that I’m in that I never kind of expected to have. Right? It’s kind of opened something up for people. So I’m so excited about our chat today. It’s great.
Ali Shapiro [00:05:44]:
Yeah. So if you’re tuning in for the first time on either Courage and Spice or Insatiable, this is Sas and I doing a series of podcasts called Body Stories about the nuances of wanting to genuinely be healthy. And sometimes that includes losing weight. And so how do we talk about that? And I’ll link in my and insatiable and I’m sure in SASA show notes to our first episode, if you want to go back and listen to that on the let’s kind of kick off with public weight loss, if you don’t mind, because you kind of said talking about this and you and I were boxing and we had both listened to this interview that Lizzo had done. And apparently she has as she called it, consciously released weight. Is that is that how she was using?
Sas Petherick [00:06:28]:
Yeah. It’s like weight release journey or something like that. It’s a it’s a euphemism for weight loss.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:34]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. And though the way that she was talking about it, it sounded like it was, like, in a really healthy way, but she was kind of getting to the emotional stuff. But public weight loss, this also, while you and I both know some people who had actually excluded me in the past from certain things because I’ve always been kind of neutral about weight loss. Like, if people wanna do it, that’s fine. If they don’t, that’s fine. But it’s, like, not for me to tell people.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:00]:
And we’ve seen a lot of the people who I would say through the years were they’re still anti fat phobic. Right. But there were kind of some of the leaders in body positivity, and now they’ve recently used weight loss drugs or lost a lot of weight. I just want to talk about that. You said, I think either after we stopped talking last time and it was off air, but like a lot of people, those of us who are in more feminist spaces are like, yeah, love your body, but then, like, secretly, it’s like, but I need to lose 10 or 20 pounds for my health or something like that. So what do you wanna say about public weight loss and through the lens of your own opening up of the story?
Sas Petherick [00:07:40]:
Yeah. You know, I really felt for Lizzo because I just freaking love her music. And honestly, I just wish we would leave her alone to just make her beautiful music in whatever way she wants to do that. And frankly, her relationship with her body is none of my freaking business. And I felt really angry that that becomes the focus even though she obviously volunteered to share that. I just thought, good on your love for talking about it, but you do not owe us anything. You don’t owe us any explanation for what changes you might have decided to make. I couldn’t listen to the whole episode because I can’t bear Jake Shetty.
Sas Petherick [00:08:23]:
I mean, anyone anyone who’s read The Guardian article about his real backstory, you might question him. Just another one of those guys that is has got great PR. But I would say, like, I think anyone who’s losing weight publicly or whose body is commented on publicly, It’s just such a shitty place to be. Like, I just it’s one of the aspects of our culture that I really just can’t deal with it. Like, it most stuff, I can let wash off me, but this does, like, really roll me up. And I guess it’s in the zeitgeist right now because, you know, GLP ones have allowed people to take action around weight loss in a I guess in just a a more noticeable way. And so, you know, the headlines become, you know, was it Ozempic when, actually, it’s such a boring question. So that’s kinda how I feel about it.
Sas Petherick [00:09:17]:
Pissed. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:20]:
And for everyone, Lizzo didn’t say she used GOP ones in this interview or anything, but I actually I actually did a whole insatiable episode and I’ll link it in the show notes. It was called Ozempic Oprah and our outrage. And it was actually, you know, in our last episode and in the work that you and I both do developmental work, I talked about how we have these very good and bad binary ideas. Right. Of like so for so long, it was so good to lose weight and be thin at any cost. And then we had the much needed wait a second. There’s a lot of toxicity around diets. And in our last episode, we, you know, I talked about, I think it it’s toxic when it’s thin at any cost.
Ali Shapiro [00:10:02]:
But the moderate middle and having that flexible thinking is like, oh, these people and again, I think this is probably the problem when we see people as brands because brands are supposed to be consistent. Right. And people are more dynamic and can evolve and change, especially as we age. And we may need to reconsider the weight loss conversation. But I was like a lot of the outrage. It was like I was said the same thing about Oprah. I’m like, let Oprah be part of the outrageous people being like, oh, am I bad now? Because I’m not losing weight. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:10:34]:
Cause for so long, I, I was told it’s good to just love yourself as you are and all this stuff. And, and so that’s what I’m doing. And now. Am I bad versus like the answer isn’t good or bad. It’s like, what is right for you in this moment in time? And I think that’s what gets really lost in all of these conversations is we think people doing something with their body means something about us
Sas Petherick [00:10:58]:
when it’s about them. And and I think the thing that I’ve noticed as well is that for folks who do decide they wanna consciously release their weight or however however you wanna describe it, that there is this kind of redemption arc that gets applied as well. You then have to do the confessional story of how you were miserable or, you know, your body wasn’t you might have put on a happy face, but actually deep inside, you know, there’s that kind of hero’s journey sort of redemption arc thing. And then the reveal of the princess after the fairy godmother has stepped in. Like, there’s a lot of that kind of like fairy tale narrative that gets applied to this, you know, and I see this so much on social media because I’m quite openly sharing what I’m doing because I’ve shared about everything and why why stop here? You know? I’ve been oversharing on the Internet for far too long to stop now. But I’m now getting kind of bombarded with images of women who have lost a lot of weight with the before and after photo. Like, that is the main way you do it. And it’s usually set to Benson Boone’s song Beautiful Things, which I love that song.
Sas Petherick [00:12:15]:
But it’s this kind of like, now I’m beautiful. When I just think, stop it. Stop doing that. Like, it’s it’s none of our business. And also, I kind of love that women are just going, yeah, man. I did this amazing thing. And, you know, so I have paradoxical kind of feelings about it. What I don’t love is the the judgment that comes in.
Sas Petherick [00:12:40]:
And so you can never ever read the comments here. And I just think it’s so disturbing to me how we all think we should have an opinion on someone else’s body. And and I I think about this when I think of, like, friends who are non binary or who are kind of gender fluid, who are playing with their gender expression, those who are trans. It’s like, your body is none of my business. Like, dude, I just want you to be the most fullest expression of yourself. However that looks, it’s literally none of my business. And I think that’s the healthiest way to say it. Just stop worrying about other people’s bodies.
Ali Shapiro [00:13:19]:
Yeah. I think it’s because and this is the part of, I think, thing that body positivity help at every size was really great about was, like, it’s like this hero story happens because it’s like now I’m worth something. Right? It’s like where we intertwine weight and worth. And it’s like that’s where we have to separate. It’s not this hero’s journey because ultimately, the only thing that changes, in my opinion don’t get me wrong. It feels great to feel strong in your body. And I wanna get to some of the insights you’ve had in your journey. But things aren’t changing because you’re thin.
Ali Shapiro [00:13:49]:
It’s because you’re taking risks now. Right? When I set out to lose my postpartum and menopausal weight and people were like, well, how were you so neutral about it? I was like, because I knew nothing in my life was gonna change. Like, I had done that work fifteen years ago. And so it wasn’t this there was no hero’s journey. It was just, like, just get up and do the boring thing because nothing in my life was gonna change. You know? And, again, I do feel better in my clothes. I can sleep better. I have less joint pain, But it wasn’t the fairy tale that I thought was going to happen in my twenties, which I’ll never forget.
Ali Shapiro [00:14:23]:
I was actually it was part of building a business and I was in Philadelphia and I was like really struggling with something in business building because, you know, it’s hard. And I was like, oh, my God. I used to think if I was thinner, I wouldn’t have to figure out this hard thing. And I was like, I lost that illusion. Like the illusion is gone. Like the hard thing’s going to happen no matter what I weigh. That’s a whole other discussion. But I think that’s part of what we have to in public discourse be like, this is not a hero’s journey.
Ali Shapiro [00:14:52]:
Maybe the outsides are different, but it’s like ultimately what’s different is maybe you’re taking more risks because you’re calling it more confidence or you feel something, but it’s not the weight loss that has done that. Maybe that’s 10% of it. But the 90% is you just showing up as a commitment to yourself, and this is what your work is around self belief, you know, and this is what we really do in my work of, like, how do I create safety so I can take the risks I want? So
Sas Petherick [00:15:19]:
Yeah. I love that. I think that’s why I’m finding this whole thing really anticlimactic. Like, you’ve put some words to that that are some feelings that I’ve been having. Like, at the end of the day, this is kinda just math and consistency. Like, you know?
Ali Shapiro [00:15:37]:
Yeah. Well, so that’s one of the things I wanna talk to you about because some one of my former clients, she DM me, and she’s like, I am loving I’m loving your and SAS this conversation. And she had talked about how she loved how you said, oh, this is about devotion, not discipline. And I was like, yes, I’m so glad SAS said that because I talked about that a lot. And in our culture, discipline is about control. Right? That’s how I think most people define it. But devotion is I loved how you said in your reel. It’s like, oh, it’s showing up even when it’s basically, like, boring or, like, I don’t wanna do it.
Ali Shapiro [00:16:14]:
So can you talk a little bit about that insight you’ve had for people?
Sas Petherick [00:16:18]:
I’m so happy to. I think this is at the key of it all is I think you’re right. Discipline is about control. I think devotion is about love. Right? It’s about loving myself enough to know when I’m when I’m opting out and I don’t need to. You know? Like, the those days where you just can’t be asked. And so one of the things that’s happened since we last talked is I realized, mostly through the conversations we’ve been having on on Voxer, that there’s a lot about this that I just don’t know. Like, I think I have a false sense of understanding about bodies, you know, how it works, like, what I need to do.
Sas Petherick [00:17:04]:
Like, I was like, really? Do I? Like, do I know what I’m doing here? And and I thought I need to ask for some help. Like, I actually I think I need help. And I think mostly because it felt very piecemeal, like, I was I felt like I was eating healthy, but I didn’t really know if I was. I can be seduced, like, I fell for so many April fools stories this year. Like, I can be seduced quite easily because I’m so bloody trusting. So I’m I can be influenced. And I recognize that that was sort of throwing me off. And I’m like, oh, should I be worried about this? But, man, if you open that door, people will tell you that drinking water is a bad thing.
Sas Petherick [00:17:44]:
So don’t listen to the influencers is what I would say. So I thought, I I think I need an expert. I I actually want support and I want someone to guide me. So I was very clear that I want someone who understands the food stuff because that is quite a big deal for me. I have a really healthy relationship with my body, but my relationship with food tends to edge towards emotional eating. And I love food, so it’s a celebration. And it’s just a complex relationship, and I really wanted to educate myself more around that. Plus I’m so bamboozled by the whole macro carb is bread evil question, you know? And and I also don’t really know how to progressively train.
Sas Petherick [00:18:31]:
Like, I can probably put a workout together, but then after six weeks, what do I do? So I’ve started working with my trainer, Sarah, who is based in The UK, and we have daily contact. I send her form videos of my workouts. She sends me video feedback. It is so supportive. I can message her anytime. I have an app where I’m tracking my weight each morning. Like, I weigh it each morning, and she tracks the average loss over the week, which I think is such a smart way of tracking weight loss. I have macros that she has set up for me.
Sas Petherick [00:19:07]:
I have three workouts that I interchange and I work out three times a week and I am getting in 7,000 steps a day. Plus I have to drink, like, two liters of water. So I’ve got these five goals that I need to meet each day, which I know sounds a lot, but the dopamine hits from ticking that little box on the app and knowing that that is tangible kind of outward sign of my devotion to creating this body that I really believe is in there somewhere. Right? And so this whole process has taught me that, like, devotion is awkward. Like, I needed a guide, you know, and asking for help is not my favorite. I’m a pretty self reliant cat, you know, I I’m pretty good at that, but I’m so glad I’ve done it. And when we’re about a month in and a couple of things have happened, one is I injured my back because I got a bit ambitious and lifted a kettlebell that was too heavy and strained my lower back. And I was so upset with myself for doing that.
Sas Petherick [00:20:15]:
And also, I felt like, oh, no. This is the thing that will stop everything. Right? Like, that all or nothing approach. And Sarah gave me another workout to do that was no weights. It was just body weight so I could do it at home and some stretches to do in the evenings, which I’ve been doing ever since. So now I have, like, an evening stretching practice. My back is fine. I went back to the gym within a week yesterday, and I just did the same workout, and I’m absolutely fine this morning.
Sas Petherick [00:20:47]:
So I’m learning through having that guide. I’m learning, like, how to flex with my life, you know, how to flex when stuff happens. And I think that psychological flexibility is the key to all of this. Even though I know what I know, I still go down that all or nothing path so easily. It’s like, oh, well, fuck it. Chuck it. You know? That happens so fast. And having Sarah there has made all the difference.
Ali Shapiro [00:21:19]:
Oh, you said so much good stuff. I mean, for everyone listening, psychological flexibility is the core of SAS and my mine work. Did I I’m not English. I don’t think I said that correctly, but it’s like, yeah. And that’s the ability to not be black and white all or nothing either or. And when you were talking about that, it made me think of devotion and you said it’s loving myself. And I think to kind of even maybe put a more fine point tip around that love is like meeting yourself where you are. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:21:52]:
Not these expectations of like, I need to be perfect or I’m never gonna injure myself or and I think that’s why so many plans fail is because, again, we talked in the last episode about, like, okay. I’m overwhelmed. I might have a false sense of what works for me, so let me outsource my authority to the Internet. But we’re also outsource it when we think, like, even when we’re being good, like, oh, if I follow this perfectly, right, like, I’m gonna get the result. And to me, part of devotion is, like, yes, there are certain things we can’t control, but how do we respond when things are out of our control? Like, you injuring your back was out of your control and especially in midlife and beyond, like your sleep might be out of control. Where your hormones are fluctuating might be out of control. You may be caregiving and can’t get to the gym that day or something. And so devotion and that love to me is like, how do you show up in that flexibility when things aren’t going the way that you thought they would? I love that you said it’s made all the difference.
Ali Shapiro [00:22:54]:
And I love that your trainer gave you adjustments for you, but also for people listening. Like I often tell my clients around food and exercise. Part of how you get out of all or nothing is you focus on momentum because we often think consistency means I have to do think the same thing every day to be consistent or the same plan. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. How do you just keep yourself from becoming inert? Right? Like and that could mean you’re going out to a party. And for me, it’s like, okay. I’m gonna I’m not gonna eat as healthy as I normally do. But for me, I know I need some animal protein, try to get some veg in, and then I can be moderate with sugar so then my sleep isn’t fucked up.
Ali Shapiro [00:23:36]:
So then the next day, I’m not like when I used to binge, it would be like, oh, you know, like, oh my god. It takes, like, three days to rebound from that. But with exercise, because, you know, I struggle with my sleep, it’s like, okay. You may not feel like moving today, but, like, just walk so that, like, one, your sleep gets better that night, hopefully. Walking, I really figured out, helps me sleep. But also, so the next day you’re not coming from this, like, oh, I have to start up all over again.
Sas Petherick [00:24:04]:
So sluggishness. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:24:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to offer that to you and people listening.
Sas Petherick [00:24:12]:
Totally. And can I just share, like, the most shocking thing that Sarah said to me right at start? Because I’ve been I think I said in the last episode, I’ve been tracking all of my food in an app, and she has access to that. And the first thing she said to me was, okay. So we’re gonna whack your daily calories up by about 500. And I was like, we’re gonna what now? Like, seriously, I was really shocked. She said, you are undernourished. You’re eating good food. Like, don’t get me wrong.
Sas Petherick [00:24:43]:
She said, you’re eating whole foods. Like, that’s great. Having treats every now and then, it’s all good. But you need more and you particularly more protein. And I’m like, oh my god. The rumors are true. We do need to eat so much protein. I think that was so interesting to me, and and I remember texting you going 1,750 calories a day.
Sas Petherick [00:25:06]:
Does this sound right to you? Like, because I feel like that was dangerous. That was a real risk. Yes.
Ali Shapiro [00:25:16]:
I’m so glad you brought that up because, yeah, I I I wrote that down. I wanted to bring that up too because you were like, I still don’t trust it, but I’m gonna do it. And what’s the drum roll? I mean, has it how has it felt to have 1,750 calories a day?
Sas Petherick [00:25:32]:
Well, I’m not hungry anymore, Ellie.
Ali Shapiro [00:25:36]:
Get out.
Sas Petherick [00:25:37]:
You know? And and I think I said on the last thing, you know, I was playing with intermittent fasting because I wasn’t hungry in the mornings. Turns out your whole circadian rhythm changes when you’re actually moving and eating, you know, and sleeping well. Like, I’m now waking up going, right, let’s get those eggs on for Brekkie, you know? And I feel so much more energy right through the day. So I think she was right. I probably was. I’m nourished. So, you know, and I’m, like, five foot six and a half, and, you know, I I weigh nearly a hundred kilos. I’m that that’s I’m trying to get to about 70 just to be really transparent.
Sas Petherick [00:26:18]:
So 1,750 calories a day, you know, when I kind of Googled it, because I really didn’t trust this, is about right. You know? It’s like, cool. This is a this is really good. And what I just love is that I don’t get the afternoon slump, you know? And I know you do some beautiful work around the afternoon craving time and how to sort of better take care of yourself so that that doesn’t happen. So you don’t feel like you’re gonna kind of fall apart at 3PM. I I literally just would put decisions off till the next day because I didn’t trust myself in the afternoons. I’m so much more energized consistently through the day. I feel hungry at the right times.
Sas Petherick [00:27:03]:
But what I’m also noticing is that the devotion piece is really extending to how I’m planning out what I’m gonna eat and preparing that food knowing that, you know, I’m gonna hit my macros today, and I’m gonna get to tick the little box and get that little hit. But this is all adding up. Right? So over the last the month since I’ve been working with Sarah, we’re aiming to lose about between two and five kilos a month. So around about five pounds, is it?
Ali Shapiro [00:27:36]:
Thanks for doing the math. I was like, what’s that?
Sas Petherick [00:27:38]:
Sorry for all of our American listeners who haven’t quite gone metric yet. Yeah. So it’s about five pounds a month. Well, that’s what’s happening. And I’m delighted with it because it’s so predictable. Like, I feel like, oh, my body is this beautiful ecosystem that I’m now working with. All of the parts are working together. I feel like I can just really trust my body.
Ali Shapiro [00:28:07]:
On our first episode, I talked about how diet culture is beaten at all costs, and the the understandable backlash to that was still built on this idea that weight loss is toxic. Right? And I was saying there’s this third way where weight loss can be really reparative and loving towards yourself. And you describing that is the perfect example of that. Like, I was under eating and you love your work. I wasn’t able to make good decisions. I had to put it off and, oh my God, I’m under eating. I’m under nourishing my body. No wonder I was hungry.
Ali Shapiro [00:28:40]:
No. And then I don’t trust myself around all of this stuff cascades because you had this false assumption that 1,200 calories a day was what you needed to be eating when that wasn’t even giving your body what it needed to, like, I call it, keep the lights on, right. Like to like, feel your best. And this is what I’m talking about. Like so many people think, especially women think that they have to under eat, which then causes all this other stuff that they can’t live the way they want to live. And this is how weight loss, when you really get clear on it, it’s often you’re going to have to nourish yourself holistically in so many ways than you never have. And it can be such a even you getting support. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:29:25]:
I was like, you made me think of in my truth with food group this round in further episodes, we’ll probably get deeper into the emotional aspect of the work I do. But one woman’s like, you know, I hate that there’s people involved with this. You know? Like, I hate that we have the people to get to eat well. And I was like, yeah. That’s part of health. Like, being interdependent and meeting people. But that’s what it remind but you getting support of, like, quality support, not the Internet. Right? I mean, we could even look at, like, depth psychology of, like, oh, my God, the unreliable authority that we’re we’re going to for support instead of someone who can care and love for us.
Ali Shapiro [00:30:04]:
I just want everyone to, like, really hear that, like, you’re not hungry. And when you told me you were intermittent fasting, I see. I know everyone responds to things differently. And I know sometimes people can benefit. Like, I think there’s like healing diets and then maintenance diets and not like diet traditionally, but like sometimes they call it like metabolic follicle busted or something. Right. Like maybe keto or intermittent fasting can help them for like four to six weeks, but then they need to get off of it. So.
Ali Shapiro [00:30:32]:
But then maintenance wise, you want to be eating breakfast. But when you said that you were like feeling really good with that and I was like, sometimes people think they’re feeling good because they get what I call the juice cleanse high, which is like, I’m not eating enough, so my blood sugar is tanking, so it’s pumping out cortisol. And I’m like, hey.
Sas Petherick [00:30:52]:
I think I had a bit of that. I think I and and also I think just feeling like, oh, this is the thing. Right? But I look back now at my month ago self, God bless her, and I think, oh, but I was still restricting myself. Right? Like, I still saw bread as the enemy. I was still kind of like going, oh, this is a good food. This is a bad food. Whereas as I’m thinking about this in terms of macros, food becomes way more neutral for me. That’s what I’ve seen.
Sas Petherick [00:31:22]:
And now it’s just like, what are the nutritional properties of this? And then it’s a choice. So it does come down to some math, you know. Sorry if this is jargon, but macros are just those macronutrients. Right? So carbs, protein, fat, and there’s different nutritional values to each of those different types of macronutrient. And the micronutrients are all the other stuff that gets in in the middle, but they don’t have as much calorific value. So we don’t tend to worry about those in terms of managing weight loss and and all of that jazz. But just making that kind of connection in my mind, like, oh, okay. If I have this and I have this with it, oh, then I’m gonna feel really full.
Sas Petherick [00:32:07]:
I’m gonna feel quite satiated, you know? So I think there’s something about just learning those basic things and really understanding what that actually translates to in my body, how I’m gonna feel. I think that has made a huge difference. So now I’m like, I’m gonna have a piece of bread. Totally. I love bread. The idea of never having bread again makes me cry. Like, I’m so sad about that, and I’m so sad about past me who believed that it was naughty to have pastries or whatever. And whereas Sarah’s approach is, if you’re gonna have something that is highly colorific, make sure it’s something you really want.
Sas Petherick [00:32:49]:
Right? Just enjoy it. Then it’s like pleasurable and you get the joy factor of it. And how great is that? And I think that approach is really just, again, helping with that flexibility.
Ali Shapiro [00:33:01]:
What SAS is talking about everyone too with the macros, which are fat, carbs, and protein, is that that essentially balances your blood sugar. And most people I I think it’s changed with CGMs. You don’t even need a CGM. I mean
Sas Petherick [00:33:16]:
What’s a CGM?
Ali Shapiro [00:33:17]:
Oh, it’s a continuous glucose monitor. They’re all the rage in The States. But what people don’t realize is that your stress really influences your blood sugar. So they may think it’s the banana that’s spiking my blood sugar when it’s because you’re running out the door and you don’t have enough time to eat and you’re have a meeting with your boss. So they can be helpful, I think, in the short term sometimes to kinda get some awareness if you have none.
Sas Petherick [00:33:41]:
They’re not essential.
Ali Shapiro [00:33:43]:
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
Ali Shapiro [00:33:45]:
No. No. No. No. No. And and again, people have to, I think, think about when they’re looking at interventions, like, is this data gonna make me feel more shame and I don’t know how to change it? Or because then sometimes people like, oh my god, my blood sugar is so high when I eat carbs and not realizing, like, okay, so eat a little protein beforehand and you’re gonna be fine. But there’s a couple of things I wanna pop out that you’re saying is that when you learn macros and what you need this is how I teach it in my freedom from cravings and truth with food program, but you’re essentially learning the structure, what macros will keep you satiated. And this is how these GLP one drugs work.
Ali Shapiro [00:34:25]:
Right? They target satiation. They’re not magically making you lose weight. They’re just saying to your brain and your body, you’re satisfied. And that’s what your blood sugar does. And so when you learn the percentage of macros that you need, you have the structure to feel satiated, but then you have the flexibility to fill that in whatever way you want. So say you’re going out to dinner, you know that you do better with animal protein. That’s a big thing in my framework. I help clients figure out, like, do I do better with animal protein, plant protein or a mix? And so if you’re going out to dinner, you don’t have to, like, plan it a week in advance that night.
Ali Shapiro [00:34:58]:
You can say, what am I feeling like? I know I need protein. Maybe I want the fish. Maybe I want the steak. But you have the flexibility to choose that based on what you’re in the mood for. And then over time, intuitively, you’re going to crave what’s going to make you feel more satiated. But intuition is based on patterns. It’s not instincts. So you have to have to SAS’s point, like, I had this, like, false assumption I knew what worked for me.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:24]:
But that’s part of learning flexibility, I think, is learning those macronutrients. And that’s why I teach macros too, because it’s it gives you the flexibility but enough structure that you’re gonna feel satiated.
Sas Petherick [00:35:36]:
Totally. You know, technology now is so great. Like, I literally just use an app. Sarah has calculated my percentages each day, and I just try and hit those, like, within that calorie limit. It’s like, it really is just math. And then we bring all our feelings to it all. Yes.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:52]:
Yeah. That’s but I love the feelings. That’s my special
Sas Petherick [00:35:56]:
Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:57]:
But I do wanna like it is math, but it’s also counterintuitive math. So you were talking about, like, 1,750 calories. And for people to get an understanding, I’m only five foot four and a half. I’m I’m pretty active and I need around 2,200 calories a day to maintain my weight. Okay. And so these are higher numbers than you’re probably listening. And when I said back to SAS, which she was like, oh, that makes sense, is when you think you need twelve, thirteen hundred calories a day to lose weight, what actually happens is your body adapts and your metabolism, which again is not an organ. I used to think it was just this organ in the body somewhere.
Ali Shapiro [00:36:33]:
But it’s your overall, like, energy exchange. Your body is gonna say, oh, shit. Like, there’s not a lot of energy coming in. So then it will adapt to your body only needing 12 or 1,300 calories a day. And so then what’s happening is you start normalizing, I’m exhausted. Oh, my god. I have this. I can’t recover well from my workouts.
Ali Shapiro [00:36:54]:
I have anxiety. Right? And I’m not saying all these things aren’t independent of what you eat always. But I was saying to SAS, when you’re trying to lose weight, you want to eat as many calories as possible and still be in a deficit so that your metabolism is still the fire is still running So that when you want to stop losing weight to maintain and I’m sure SAS coach is going to do this as she gets closer and closer to what she reaches her goal, she’ll probably ratchet up the calories more so that you gradually ratchet them up. And that’s what a lot of us who grew up in the eighties and nineties. I mean, I still remember doing this like, okay. And I could get away with this when I was 14 and didn’t have any stress or had all the hormones in the world. It was like, I’m going to cut down to 1,200 calories. But then you think you have to maintain that when really you’re just crashing your system.
Ali Shapiro [00:37:42]:
And that is how weight loss is damaging because you don’t have the energy. You don’t have the the life force you need to live a really good life. So I just wanted to add that.
Sas Petherick [00:37:51]:
I love that. And that is very much like with my coach. One of the reasons why I wanted to work with her particularly is she was she’s like, look, we’re just gonna go through this fat loss stage, but it’s just a stage. At the end of that, we then wanna get you kind of reverse dieting, basically, is what she calls it. And that’s where you start exactly what you’re saying. Ramp up the calories a bit more until we find a happy medium where whatever workouts you’re doing matches, you know, maintaining your your weight loss. And she said, and then you graduate, and then you just go off and and do this for yourself. Right? Like, she said, I I just wanna be in your life during this fun time when we go through this process together.
Sas Petherick [00:38:35]:
And I just think that to me is the bit that has always been missing whenever I’ve tried any other diet or food regime, anything like that. It’s always been, and now we lock you in for life, and there’s no escape. You know, Weight Watchers is the Hotel California, you know, it’s like, you are literally, like, gonna have that app, right, for the rest of your life. And it is just an app. It isn’t any of the emotional support, you know, all of the other stuff that goes into it. So, you know, I love that these things work for folks. And please know, I’m not saying none of this has value, but I just think that I believe women are chronically undernourished.
Ali Shapiro [00:39:22]:
It’s a metaphor, man, if I’ve ever heard one I’ve
Sas Petherick [00:39:25]:
Totally. And going through this process has opened my eyes so much to all of the BS that’s around what it means to be really healthy. You know, you must be fed up with my boxes. I’m like, Ellen, did you know this? Yes.
Ali Shapiro [00:39:41]:
I love it. I love no. I’m like, take me to church, Seth. Like, I’m like, what radical like, I loved it. In our last episode, you’re like, what radicalized me because when I found this and again, I just found it earlier because I was in more chronic distress, I think. You know, it’s like I I told people it’s like I just happen to, you know, I had cancer at 13 and all that stuff, but it was like, the more you unpack this, the more you’re like, oh, it’s not me. It’s like everything I’ve been fed, like metaphorically. Right? And it’s so liberating because you can give the shame and the guilt and the lack of self trust back to the people.
Ali Shapiro [00:40:18]:
So the chasm in the first place and well, and that brings me up to one of the things that you said, and I wanna circle back to the emotional support with with Ash. But this is one of the big realizations or things that you shared in Voxer was you were doing this race. And you remember and you’re, like, didn’t wanna be there. And I loved it. And and I I wanna get into a little bit of some of the stories because that’s the work I do with people. But some of the story around sport and who’s athletic, who’s not, who’s 40 and all those things. But you were talking about how in this race, we tend to think the people who are the fittest or the thinnest. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:40:55]:
We tend to think they’re trying the hardest. And you were like, I’m realizing that the people who come in last, the people who are at the back, they’re the ones who are trying the hardest. Like they’re the ones dealing with the I’m not going to be get the prize. I’m not first place, but I’m showing up. They’re the ones devoted. Right. And it started this conversation between us. And this actually came up in my group yesterday because so many of my clients, one of the big pains for them is that their body size society thinks they’re undisciplined.
Ali Shapiro [00:41:27]:
Right. And again, because our our puritanical culture values discipline. And I was like, you know, often people who are thin, they’re the least disciplined. They’re working the least hard because their genetics, their biology, it just is like, and, and those of us who have struggled, we’re often working the hardest and we’re often trying the most. So I just wanted to like unpack that a little bit because I think that realization you had and, and you always say it in a funny, funny way. So no pressure.
Sas Petherick [00:41:59]:
It was a race or it was called Round the Bays, and it happens every year here. And we literally walk, like, eight kilometers, which is, I don’t know, five miles around the bays of Auckland City where I live. And it’s beautiful. It’s like a real community thing. You know, there’s lots of musicians and different, like, community groups come out along the sides and cheer everybody on, and it’s kind of fun. They have runners going first and then joggers and then the walkers. And Ash, my husband, who has run a marathon and is very fit and loves this kind of thing, loves a bit of community walk walking, Said, I’ve enrolled us to do round the phase. And I was like, okay.
Sas Petherick [00:42:48]:
Happier now. And on the ferry, on the way over to the the side of the race, I was like, I do not wanna be here. And I was having this real, like, I was so in my head about it. I was like, I do not feel like walking eight kilometers. Am I just doing this to please him? What if I say I’m just gonna get on the ferry and go home and not do this? How will I feel? Like, I was so in my head about it. And I hadn’t eaten anything that day because I was still doing the whole, you know, no breakfast thing. So I was hungry and a bit emotional and just did not wanna be there. And Ash was just like, okay.
Sas Petherick [00:43:28]:
Well, we’ll just walk up and see how you feel. You know, he’s very kind of he’s a he’s very much an optimist about these things. He’s like, shall I get you a banana? Would you like a banana? I was like, yes. I really would. So, anyway, I had something to eat. We did the walk. And usually, if I’m walking, I will listen to a podcast because that helps me stay out of my body or or out of the discomfort of being sweaty and uncomfortable and exercising as someone in a heavier body. It’s never been a particularly pleasurable experience.
Sas Petherick [00:44:01]:
My headphones died within half an hour. I swear to God I charged them the night before. So now it’s the worst case scenario. I’m outside in the sun. There’s too much noise, too many people. I don’t wanna be there. There’s nowhere else to go except forward, and my headphones aren’t working. So I have to be really aware of what is happening.
Sas Petherick [00:44:24]:
And it was so interesting to me how I had to be in my body and really present with the discomfort of it all. And after a while, I was just like, right, let’s just get it over with. Let’s just keep on go like, I’ve really got into that kind of stoicism place of, okay, just one foot in front. Let’s look for the next sign, you know, in every kilometer they’d let you know. And what I noticed was I started watching the people around me. And I was in the walker’s group and towards the back, and there was a lot of people there who were in bigger bodies, who were high fiving each other and a little bit, and also, like, kinda just getting through it, you know. And I just thought, oh my god. Like and this makes me a bit emotional, but I just thought, we’re the brave ones.
Sas Petherick [00:45:19]:
You know, like, we’re the ones that don’t find this easy and probably aren’t enjoying it and are really annoyed by all of the overstimulation. And yet we’re here doing it for some reason where we think this will be good for us. And it just occurred to me, like, why do they give the medals to all the people up the front who won the genetic lottery, who find running easy and have, you know, a fast metabolism, like, that’s privileged that, you know, you didn’t do anything for that. Like, it just happened. You got you won that genetic lottery. For those of us who have not got that, who actually earn every single muscle and, you know, fitness point, it’s like, this is not simple or easy. And it I don’t know, it really affected me. I just thought, yeah, I’m I’m so happy to be walking with these people, this brave group of people who are doing this even though it’s hard, it just felt like, yeah, we are winning.
Sas Petherick [00:46:29]:
In the grand scheme of things, like we are gonna win. Yeah. Oh gosh. It really does make me emotional. And, you know, one of the things that I’ve been doing is parkrun, which is a five kilometre community walk or run every Saturday morning. It happens all around the world. It’s totally free to attend. Ash has been doing it for years.
Sas Petherick [00:46:51]:
He’s got, like, his hundred parkruns t shirt. And I’ve done 13 now for three months I’ve been going. And it’s such a lovely experience of that. And I’m always kind of near the back. But one of the things I love about parkrun is that there is always a tail walker. So a volunteer who volunteers to come last. And I just think that really here was something in me from high school runs and all of that crap where coming last was the worst thing you could ever be. And I I’m just so touched that parkrun who thought of that.
Sas Petherick [00:47:36]:
Gosh. I’m all over the place today. But it just feels so important. No one comes last. Someone volunteers to do that.
Ali Shapiro [00:47:46]:
I mean, I feel emotional because I’ve always don’t hate you, but I’ve always kind of been sporty. It doesn’t mean I haven’t struggled.
Sas Petherick [00:47:55]:
I’m not nice to my friends.
Ali Shapiro [00:47:57]:
Hi, Dan. And I should say, but it makes me think about why I care about people being healthy so much because I’ve had to heart fight so hard for it. But this to me is what’s healthy is where you can be with that emotion and see what it opens up in you.
Sas Petherick [00:48:18]:
Yes.
Ali Shapiro [00:48:21]:
And you’re not all over the place. I’m following you. One of the things I know and this may be a nice bridge for for next time, but what I wanna just start to plant some seed is you talking about on that ferry and and how you didn’t wanna be there and all this stuff. Right? And in my work and and you would call it the same thing in your work under the domain of self doubt and stuff. But I would call that protective resistance because you were just sharing about how that walk healed something in you from high school or from your early days of what sport meant. And so I wanna talk a little bit. And again, we can just plant some seeds and maybe next time, but, like, what is the story that is starting to change for you around fit people, unfit people or sporty? Because I know that a lot of my clients and I know a lot of listeners can identify as that outsider. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:49:24]:
As the person who at some point, whether me it was being bullied really badly. Then it was also cancer makes you feel very much out of place when you’re 13. But one of the things we were boxing about and kind of joking with our friend Jack, who is amazing, is we’re like, Sas, are you going to become like sporty Spice? You know, like like, are you careful? Like you or all your friends are going to be at the gym. But it opened up this thing of like part of why there’s so much emotion. It’s not just the walk or just that you didn’t have the banana, although always go with food and, you know, but can you share people kind of some of the things that you’re realizing have made you feel like athletics isn’t for me or exercise isn’t for me or some of the resistance around things of, like, what the story is there?
Sas Petherick [00:50:12]:
You know, it reminds me so much of growing up in a house where there was a there was a role that I was given as the smart kid. And my brother was the sporty kid. He was quite a talented soccer player and played, like, representative level at quite a young age. And him and I would kick a bat a ball around in the garden for hours, and I was better than him for quite a while. But back in the eighties, as soon as you turn 12, you have to play you can’t play with the boys anymore. So that got kind of cut off from me. So I I never really played competitively, but I I absolutely tackle I knew I knew all his moves. I could tackle him.
Sas Petherick [00:50:56]:
Like, I could read the read the ground, you know, I kinda knew what was going on. Because I’ve had this heart condition for my whole life, like, I could read very from a very young age. Like, I went to school at four and a half and I was reading. And so I was kind of given that label as the smart kid because of that. And then as I it was almost like, so you don’t get to do anything else, maybe? You know, like, that isn’t for you. And then during my kind of eight to twelve years, I was alright. I was pretty fit, and I was pretty like a normal kid. You know, I didn’t really have any complications or anything like that.
Sas Petherick [00:51:38]:
But then during my teenage years, I think because soccer got cut off from me and I didn’t really wanna do anything else. I played netball for a while, but I don’t know. Girls are different. It was way more fun getting on the field with the boys, you know? So I think I’ve grown up with a story that, oh, I’m I don’t get to have that. I’m the smart one, so I can have that. So I was like a a librarian at school, you know, at lunch times and stuff like that. You know? I’ve just never allowed the idea of athleticism, sportiness, all of that really into my identity even though, like, you know, I always played goal shoot as at netball. I was always a really good shot.
Sas Petherick [00:52:23]:
I have good hand eye coordination, good foot foot eye coordination. I know that. So I’m always like, oh my god, we play professional athletes a squillion pounds because they’ve got good hand eye coordination. Are you freaking serious? So there is something for me about not allowing that into my identity too much because almost like you can’t have everything. Right? And now what I’m finding is, actually, I can do this on my terms. I’m never gonna go to, like, exercise classes where someone yells at you and you all kind of get super sweaty. Like, that may literally kill me. Like, my I’ve gotta really watch my heart rate.
Sas Petherick [00:53:05]:
But for me, going to the gym strength training in a slow, deliberate way is so fun to me. I get so much joy from it. And because I’m eating enough, I have the energy for it, which is kind of fun. So I think what’s shifting for me is walking counts, and I’m quite good at that. I can do that very happily. Strength training counts, and I really enjoy that. So what’s shifting is I’m finding ways to add in movement that I really enjoy. And that kind of by proxy, it’s like, well, you’re an active person now.
Sas Petherick [00:53:47]:
You know, I’ve had to, you know, move up the boxes from sedentary to lightly active to moderately active. That’s kind of an I’ve yeah. I guess I am. Right? But I think what’s shifting for me a lot is the story that I don’t get to have that or that isn’t part of me. It’s like, no. I’m letting that in. I I bought a t shirt the other day that said, be kind and lift heavy. And I wore it to the gym, and I just thought, oh, yeah.
Sas Petherick [00:54:15]:
That’s interesting. Like, it feels like that’s a true kind of part of my identity now. You know, that’s that’s me. You know? There is something that’s gently opening up around all of this.
Ali Shapiro [00:54:29]:
I love that. And and you said on my terms because our your clients and my clients will recognize that as self authoring. Like, I’m gonna do this my way. One more thing about that because, you know, can you do you care to share about kind of your early experiences that with your dad in sport as well? Overlaying that on top of what you just shared.
Sas Petherick [00:54:53]:
Yeah. Well, my dad was is a ardent soccer fan. He’s from the Northeast Of England and moving us all to New Zealand. His connection to home was through watching his football team, you know? And, you know, he was in his twenties when he moved to New Zealand. So I imagine, you know, all of that kind of connection to home and belonging for him, it was partly through his football team. And so a lot of my memories with my dad growing up are about him prioritizing that connection for him. So whenever the FA Cup was on, that was always at, like, two in the morning in New Zealand time. And so he would invite all of the amateur football team that he played with to watch the FA Cup at our house.
Sas Petherick [00:55:40]:
And so my mom would, like, bake steak and oyster pies. That was the tradition. God knows where that comes from. For 20 men who would be drunk in the living room, cheering loudly, watching the football, and we weren’t allowed out. We weren’t allowed to kinda come in. It was like dad’s time kinda thing. So that would happen every year, and we’d also have, like, our whole kind of Saturdays would be taken up with dad’s football. So he would go and play.
Sas Petherick [00:56:15]:
Mom would often be working. She was a nurse, so she worked shift work. And when she wasn’t off, we would have to go to the game with dad and basically just sit on the sidelines and watch. But I knew he didn’t really want us to be there. He just wanted to hang out with his friends, you know. I mean, you you just know that as a kid. The game wasn’t so bad. It was after the game, they would all get together and they had a, like, social club, and they would drink and be blokes together.
Sas Petherick [00:56:46]:
Back in the eighties, feminism had not touched New Zealand at that time, I wouldn’t say, in any great degree. And the kids were all kind of piled off with some, you know, bottles of Coke and some chips to kind of go and sit somewhere or be somewhere else, you know? So there was this very kind of clear definition for me that when it came to my dad socializing, I was both I needed to be there. I had to be there. There wasn’t anyone out anywhere else I could be, and I was so unwelcome. So there was this real kind of, like, I grew to really hate football, I I think, because I couldn’t really extend that into hating my father. Although, you know, I’ve had periods where I’ve come pretty close to that. We’re in a pretty good place now, but it’s taken a long time for me to almost forgive him for being a young man trying to figure out childcare. I mean, essentially, that’s what it was, you know, and doing a really imperfect job of that.
Sas Petherick [00:57:47]:
But I think, you know, being around drunk men, sporting events, all of that actually gives me a really visceral response. Like, I I can’t do it. I don’t even wanna be around that energy. It feels incredibly dangerous to me. I don’t have memories of anything ever happening, but it’s the threat of something. It’s that anticipation that this is getting out of control. There are no grown ups in the room. That kind of feeling, no one will protect me.
Sas Petherick [00:58:20]:
That feeling was very alive for me. And so it’s and it still is. So there’s some kind of traumatic memories of all of that. And I think that got mushed up with with football and therefore sport in general. And therefore, I don’t wanna be part of that because that feels really a key to me.
Ali Shapiro [00:58:42]:
Thank you so much for sharing that because I think it’s important for people to realize when SAS was on that ferry being like, I don’t want to do this, I feel stuck. Right. Part of this was her story. Whenever we feel under threat. Right. We can we can say it’s about our body size, but it’s deeper than that. It’s whenever we feel under threat, we create sides. So there’s me and them.
Ali Shapiro [00:59:03]:
Right. So it’s like I’m not sporty, even though SAS is active. Right. Like walking counts. She can do this on the same terms. But this is the emotional work that has to happen is you have to realize, like, what am I reacting to that’s rooted in the past? And it makes sense. It’s not to say that didn’t happen. Right.
Ali Shapiro [00:59:20]:
This is why I love the work SAS and I do. There’s no magical thinking required. There’s no it’s like, oh my God, no wonder what some of that discomfort and this is what I work on with clients of in your body is based on a story that may or may no longer be true or and that has to evolve. And I just think that’s so important because you said the word identity is that we get in these identities of, well, I love food more than other people or I’m out of control around food versus no, this is all protective mechanisms. And you have to be willing to question those identities to really get the momentum that that SAS has started to get. So I just want to I appreciate you sharing that because I think it’s such a great example of how you’re and because you do this work, you are so easily able to see it and articulate it. And it’s okay if you’re listening. You’re like, but I just wanted to start to plant some seeds because this is this is the work that I love doing and this is what unlocked so much for people.
Ali Shapiro [01:00:19]:
So they can start to shift that identity and realize that, hey. You know, being athletic is someone who moves their body. It’s not it’s not it’s not who gets the medal or whatnot. So thank you for for sharing and doing this work and pulling back the kimonos. So I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot of ahas.
Sas Petherick [01:00:37]:
It feels really healing to walk into all of those stories that I’ve probably you know, I’ve been able to protect myself from all of them by just not bothering to be athletic. Right?
Ali Shapiro [01:00:51]:
Right. But but saying and I liked how you said this. Right? It’s like, oh, I’m not that. Right? So then we judge people or we may be afraid of being judged at the gym because I have a lot of some clients who are afraid to go to a gym. Right? Because they’re like, I’m gonna be judged or whatever. And we experiment in small ways, but I’m like, I think this is coming from, you know, once we do their story work and everything, it’s like, is that coming from, like, seventh grade? I just think that’s really important because I think it’s a God given right to feel good in your body and move your body and it feel good. So which reminds me even how you shared how you were walking and you unlock something for your book. And it’s like, yes, when we can start connecting movement to more creativity, better sleep, things that are on our own terms and for us and not just about weights, so much magic happens.
Ali Shapiro [01:01:41]:
So
Sas Petherick [01:01:42]:
I’m so glad we’re having these conversations too, Ellie. It feels like I think I resist the sharing of the messy middle bit, like everyone. It’s like, that’s the montage scene in the movie that we just wanna be over with, you know?
Ali Shapiro [01:01:55]:
The model. The model.
Sas Petherick [01:01:57]:
Right. But I think, actually, my hope is and the feedback we’ve had so far, which has been amazing. And please do let us know how you’re how you’re finding these conversations. But I think there’s something about sharing the messiness of this middle bit that is really helpful, you know, just to kind of see what’s going on underneath it all rather than just the the before and the after. Like, so much goes on between those two photos that is important. I think these are important conversations to have.
Ali Shapiro [01:02:32]:
I think the the messy middle is people wanna skip over that, which is why if you follow-up with those before and after, they don’t last. But the messy middle is where you reclaim these parts of yourself that you thought you had to originally thought were were welcome. So this is the good stuff. So we’ll be back in about a month. I’m just gonna plug for anyone listening. If you’re interested in this more emotional work, I have the most accessible. We’re talking $97. Your emotional eating blueprint to really understand that this food stuff, the emotional side of the food stuff that it will help you really understand the root cause, which in my work is about safety and belonging.
Ali Shapiro [01:03:12]:
And we’ve touched on some of that today, but to really understand what’s coming up for you today, it’s a four week course. In May, I’ll be teaching it live. Again, only $97. And if you join before April 30 and type in early bird, you save $30. So it’s $67. And if you really wanna put your change your eating habits and get on a solid foundation, this will make everything you’re doing go further, and it will also save you a lot of time, money, and going down the wrong track and doing a lot of work for little rewards. So I’ll include it in my show notes and, Sas, if you don’t mind including it in your it’s called your emotional eating blueprint. And, yeah, Sas, anything else you wanna say before?
Sas Petherick [01:03:54]:
Well, I guess I would just add, like, I think some of the things that I’m learning about are really like you said at the start, there isn’t really a hero’s journey here because so much of the work I’ve kind of been doing over the last decade. But one of the ways that I like to work and work with people is through like reflective journaling and self reflection work. And so if you’re interested in exploring how to develop your self belief, like one of the ways I do this is through, a journaling practice each month. Yeah. It’s like the cost of a couple of coffees. And, I’ll include the link to to join me on that. It’s hosted on Substack. It’s super fun.
Sas Petherick [01:04:37]:
It’s a lovely community there too. So, yeah, we can work together too if if that feels good to you.
Ali Shapiro [01:04:43]:
I’m so glad you included that because I think we’re we’re in a period where we all need to be doing some deep reflection.
Sas Petherick [01:04:53]:
Yeah. God bless America.
Ali Shapiro [01:04:58]:
We need some guidance.
Sas Petherick [01:05:00]:
Yes. We do.
Ali Shapiro [01:05:01]:
I don’t forget some daddy, though. Thank you, Sas, for being you.
Sas Petherick [01:05:08]:
Yeah. You too, love. This is fun.
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